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David Purnell
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 02:18 pm |
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Drew,
I may be reading the riband weld lines wrong, but I 'm thinking I'm seeing three iron crolle with four blades iron and four blades steel. So the D4 would mean "Damascus w/four blade. And no mention of the crolle number?
Dave
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Drew Hause MD
Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 02:31 pm |
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| Hard to 'read' just the barrel flats, and I don't have a pic of the rest of the barrels, but I believe that is 4 Iron, with scrolls that have 4 leaves (4 iron and 4 steel.) 'Iron,' 'stripe,' 'band,' 'rod,' 'ribbon,' 'rope', and 'blade', all mean the same thing and in the finished barrel are described a 'scroll' or 'whorl' by their appearance in Crolle pattern damascus.
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David Purnell
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 02:35 pm |
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So does the "4" in D4 refer to the number of scroll or the number of blade, 0r something else?
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Drew Hause MD
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 02:39 pm |
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Exactly Dave; does it refer to the damascus pattern?? Why would the gun grade be stamped twice on the barrels? Why would a '4' be on a Grade 3 gun?
This AHE has 4 Iron 'Finest' damascus. I wish I had a pic of the barrel flats to see how it is marked.
Last edited on Sun Jan 25th, 2009 02:55 pm by Drew Hause MD
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Mike Poindexter
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 03:14 pm |
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| I have 2 GH's, one with D 4 c barrels and one with D 3 c barrels. Both are marked G and 2 on the watertable. As murph says, damascus pattern crossed grade lines at times. My own conclusion aligns with the previous post that the damascus pattern was stamped on the barrel flats because it was impossible to see easily when the barrels were in the white. I have pics of the D 4 c gun but the website thinks my 640 x 480 jpegs are too big to take. Just when I think I've got computers under control, they pull a boner. Terminator 3 is all too real.
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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 03:24 pm |
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| Here are the D 4 c. Attached Image (viewed 151 times):
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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 03:26 pm |
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| D 4 c pattern Attached Image (viewed 153 times):
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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 03:27 pm |
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| Watertable showing G grade 2 Attached Image (viewed 151 times):
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Drew Hause MD
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 03:27 pm |
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Thanks Mike
This is Dave Suponski's BH with 6 Iron Crolle-wonder how it is marked?
Last edited on Sun Jan 25th, 2009 06:44 pm by Drew Hause MD
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Drew Hause MD
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 07:19 pm |
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Off for an overnighter chasing birds in Sonoita shortly, but would someone like to provide a definitive answer "So does the "4" in D4 (on the flats) refer to the number of scrolls/blades/irons/stripes, 0r something else? Thanks.
We should note that Grades 2-6 may have 4 Iron, but different 4 Iron, and Parker price lists discribe a progression from "Fine" to "Finest" damascus
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 07:54 pm |
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| Unfortunately, the only low grade gun I own (grade 2) with 4 blade barrels (identified as such in the stock book) is not stamped with a number like the guns pictured here. I don't know what the 4 is that is stamped on the guns here, but I would be more likely to believe it was referring to the number of blades in the Damascus pattern if the barrels were identified as 4 blade in the stock book.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 08:16 pm |
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| What does the little "C" signify? Not a grade, obviously, since it's stamped on a bunch of Damascus barrels.
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Dave Suponski
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 08:26 pm |
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Drew,I just pulled the BH out of the safe. The flats are marked DD 5 Just to add to the mix here I propose that the stamp DD refers to extra fine Damascus. I am of the opinion that as Dean and Bill have stated the number of crolle or twists trancends the grades.
I think the barrels were stamped with the grade of gun they were to be used on when they were received at the factory ie: 2,3,4,5 etc. and the number of crolle was not the defining factor but rather only a part of the decision.I am speaking strickly of damascus guns not Twist,Bernard etc.
What do you guys think?
Dave.....
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David Purnell
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 08:57 pm |
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Dave,
I don't think the barrels were stamped with the grade of the gun. Instead, they were stamped with the "damascus grade of the barrel". I've read in TPS that when a gun order hit the floor parts including barrels were picked from a bin to become that gun through the manufacturing process. The barels must have been marked in some way as to approximate grade. Or perhaps approximately marked for damascus grade, then chosen for gun grade counting many more factors such as weight, length, thickness(for chokes) , hence the various damascus grades within a given gun grade.
Dave
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Dave Suponski
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 09:09 pm |
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David,I agree..I think we are in essence saying the same thing here 
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Greg Baehman
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 09:26 pm |
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Drew Hause MD wrote: What does the 'D 4' indicate on this Grade 3 (D) gun?
Here is a pic of the damascus pattern on the barrels of the above gun, #155290.
I recall when I first posted this pic of the barrel flats we determined the 4 above the D was the grade of the damascus. Now we're coming up with other plausible explanations.
In addition I wonder what the C to the right of the 4 on the barrel flat signifies and also the C between the lugs as well as the K (hard to make out in the pic) just to the left of the frame size 2 on the rear barrel lug signify? Could this C-K be the initials of the barrel fitter Charles King?
Last edited on Mon Jan 26th, 2009 03:00 pm by Greg Baehman
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 10:24 pm |
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| Greg, what is the year of manufacture of your gun? Usually the K on the barrel flats referred to Charles A. King who was the superintendant of the gun works (WK refers to his son Walter who later became superintendant after his father retired) But I don't think we know what the "C" represents and the k to the left of the frame size is a new one on me. Last edited on Mon Jan 26th, 2009 01:19 am by Dean Romig
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Greg Baehman
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Posted: Sun Jan 25th, 2009 11:39 pm |
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Now this is a bit complicated...my gun #155290 was built in 1911. It was a new frame, stock and forend for barrels from #104098, a DH which was built in 1901. The fellow that originally ordered #104098 ordered it with two sets of damascus barrels, 28" & 30" long. According to order book No. 56, in 1902 he ordered another set of barrels for the gun--gauge, length and chokes aren't mentioned. This new set of barrels then made a 3-barrel set for the owner. In 1911 he then ordered (#155290) the new frame, stock and forend to be built utilizing one of these barrel sets which created the gun I now own.
Last edited on Mon Jan 26th, 2009 01:23 am by Greg Baehman
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Dave Suponski
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Posted: Mon Jan 26th, 2009 12:42 am |
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Greg,That is cool..I think that kind of stuff is interesting as hell 
Dave...
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Mon Jan 26th, 2009 01:27 am |
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It has been pointed out to me through the gracious PM of an esteemed Parker collector and expert that I had erroneously credited an "Angus King" as being superintendant of the gun works when, in fact, it was Charles Alonzo King. That's twice I have made that particular error; first time was about a year ago; imagine I'll make it again sometime and I hope someone else will correct me . . .again. Thanks
It must be age. . .
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