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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 12:34 pm |
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| Dear Mr. Bauman- I enjoyed your reply- I am a "newbie" and have no Parkers for sale. The late "Tap" Tapply (believe he shot a M21 20 bore- once wrote- "Patience is like Red Hair or Inherited Wealth-you either have it, or you don't" I inherited the few high grade Parkers residing in my Gun Safe-I was the only Grandson and Son in a gunning family- mainly Winchesters/ Your years as a school administrator and the "fairness attempt reminds me of the advise our HS Coach gave us, to wit: "Boys, as you get along in life, remember this- it's OK to be a Hardass-Just always be a FAIR Hardass" . Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 12:46 pm by Francis Morin
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:30 pm |
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| How about that. Not a comment on the subject for nearly two months and now we get a cutesy little post about "patience" and a pat on the back for "school administrators and coaches". Talk about off topic. I found Mr. Baughman's early comment about the fairness of school administrators compared to the lack of fairness in PGCA administrators to be Bass Ackwards. My experience with school administrators and their treatment of haves and have nots is the exact opposite of what he describes. I think that there is a simple, user friendly, and diplomatic way we can allow Parker gun sales on this site, but I don't follow some of the debating techniques and logic used by some posters on either side of the question.
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:35 pm |
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And furthermore, what's this about the late Bill Tapply?? I'm pretty sure Bill wouldn't take very kindly to that comment. 
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 01:51 pm |
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| The late H.G.Tapply was not known as "Bill" as far as I know. I have no idea to whom we should attribute the off topic quote. I believe Bill Tapply's Dad, Tap Tapply, may have shot a 20 gauge Model 21 so he can't have been too bad a guy. My Dad shot one also. OK, now I'm off topic. Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 01:52 pm by Bill Murphy
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 02:34 pm |
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| Bill- mea culpa- as the self same GrandDad who left me the two 12 bore AAHE Parkers was an O'Malley- and he married a Katie O'Mara-Back in the day- when I had hair, it was a shade of red- His name was Harold Greer Tapply and he was known as "Tap"- worked for an Ad agency in "Da Big Apple" as did the late Gene Hill--I have his book Tap's Tips-Holt Rinehart & Winston -1950-1964- pages 232-233- "Patience, like red hair or inherited wealth---"but I am sure, and think your answer supports this- that Tap Tapply repeated this phrase- Although Tap hunted for years with Gorham Cross (Ol' Bang-Mark) and Burton Lowell Spiller-his son Bill wasn't really mentioned in either "Tap's Tips" or some of Burt Spiller's Grouse Feathers stories- Tap mentions his 20 bore M21 on page 269 of selfsame book-Although the late T. Nash Buckingham was my "icon" as a true Gentleman Sportsman Gunner's Gunner and Nash wrote about, as a youth, having a senior member of his Father's duck hunting club giving his logbook and a 10 bore hammer doublegun and the words :"Here, Son, I am giving you back my years"- just as moving, to my way of thinking, not only the priceless gift from Burt Spiller to Bill Tapply his Vulcan grade 20-but the manner in which he presented it-Truly the "Mold was broken" when God created true Gentlemen/Sportsmen such as the lates Nash Buckingham and Burt Spiller- as the late Paul A. Curtis once said "Guns and Gunning 1933" "Indeed, the field is the touchstone of the man".. Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 12:52 pm by Francis Morin
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Cooper Smith
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Dec 8th, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 03:42 pm |
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There are obviously good points made on both sides of the "Sell vs. Don't Sell" debate. As a new member of the PGCA I realize I have little to no standing in the association, but I do have a few opinions to share regarding comments already made in this discussion.
First, if the BOD and Membership decide to retain the No Sale policy, it's OK with me. There are plenty of other commercial sites available.
On the other hand, if a For Sale forum for Parker guns is added here, I would offer these points for consideration.
1 - Parker Guns only, for sale to PGCA Members only.
2 - The "Guns For Sale" forum would be accessible by Members ONLY, and not available to be read by the general public.
3 - Posting a gun for sale would be Read Only, no on-line replies to thread.
4 - All negotiations for purchase would be by PM...member to member.
5 - Only PGCA members could post a gun for sale.
6 - PGCA members actively engaged in commercial sales as a DEALER would be restricted to listing no more than two guns at the same time. To add a third listing, one of the current two would need to be removed.
I believe all would agree the PGCA has served the Parker Bros. shooting and collecting fraternity well by providing a wealth information and goodwill over the years...I see no reason why that would change with the addition of a "Parker Guns For Sale" forum that simply formalizes what is already done in private now. JMHO.
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 03:53 pm |
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| No, Mr. Morin, of course young Bill wouldn't have been mentioned in Spiller's "Grouse Feathers" as it was first published by Derrydale in 1934 and Bill didn't make his appearance hereabouts until 1940 (D.O.B.) Further, I had never heard of H. G. refered to as "Bill" in anything I have ever read. . . interesting. Gorham Cross {(Ol' Bang-Mark)?} a.ka. "Grampa Grouse" is attributed to having acquired that Parker VH twenty-bore for Burt (nothing in print, to the best of my knowledge, to support this fact, however) which he so graciously passed along to Bill. Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 04:13 pm by Dean Romig
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Eric Eis
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 983 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 04:01 pm |
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Not a comment on the subject for nearly two months and now we get a cutesy little post about "patience" and a pat on the back for "school administrators and coaches".
Did I miss something, or was a post deleted? Also I agree with everything that Cooper Smith said. Eric
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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| I don't agree with Mr. Bauman per se, but I will "defend to the death his right to say it". There is a great deal of "playing favorites in our school systems today- a sort of bellweather to the words from George Orwell- In Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". As far as another gentleman's comments as to "cutsey phrases and definitions of patience-" in my lexicon, cutsey (a Ladies phrase) and patience (A man's virtue) mix about as well as Pennzoil and Jack Daniels-I merely sought to give credence to the late Tap Tapply- he wrote about it in his book "Tap's Tips" re: still hunting for deer- also applies, in my experience, to waiting for Geese to appear while in a frozen pit blind and your testicles feel like popsicles- Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 12:54 pm by Francis Morin
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Timothy Sheldon
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 300 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 02:37 am |
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Eric, I hear you, I was looking for the missing link. Maybe page 3.5 or something.
My computer was broken when this thread was spun. Such a dandy to miss out on! I like to sell a gun or two from time to time and I can see both sides of the issue. It is nice to talk about Parkers and learn about this and that. In comes grandpasgirl with a DHE 28ga (I know that was not this fourm)and you can feel the "GREED" and Jessy check your PM's seep out of the woodwork. But, you know someone is buying. So why don't we put them in a section like the parts. And any members can sell their guns, everyone has a chance, not just the ones shucking and jiving. I do not believe that done correctly that it should affect conversation one bit. It is sort of a pity that we have to go else where to by and sell our fine Parker Bros Shotguns.
If we go ahead with it I feel it must be a totally private deal between buyer and seller.
Maybe we just don't want offend our sponsers????
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 11:19 am |
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| Thanks for the edification- Andover Mass- college town, correct? And Bill Tapply was born in Nov. 1940- ditto for yours truly-albiet in a Ohio town known as the Queen City- Tapply and Spiller were often in NH for their Saturday grouse hunts (Burton would not hunt on Sundays apparently-a fact that many a grouse and woodcock should have appreciated)- as far as the discussion on allowing the sale of Parker shotguns to members only on this most August forum-I have "no dog in the fight"-here.. Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 12:57 pm by Francis Morin
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 12:44 pm |
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Mr. Morin is a sly one, hard to tell a jerk on a chain from a blip on a fly line. Being a bit of a pump gun fanatic myself, I have owned my share of Model 12 Pigeon Grades from both sides of the War. However, I have never traded a 34" Parker single trap for one. I've never used an emoticon, but I guess now is the time. 
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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College town, no but the highly esteemed Phillips Academy is located here wherein many, many notables have gained their college-preparatory education - I'll refrain from dropping names - and have gone on to become heads of state, leaders in business, etc., etc., ad nauseum. I, however, identify more closely with the more modest fame this town enjoys from the founding of the game of skeet and a native son who wrote the "tome", NEGS.
Dean
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 02:02 pm |
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| Sly-yessiree- and you might want to think twice about sittin' down at the table for a game of 7 card stud-table stakes of course, with this old half-Irish-half=-Slovakian laddybuck bro. Murphy- Morin was the Americanized version of my late paternal Grandfather's surname- whereas O'Malley was on me muther's side, dontchaknow??If I had indeed paid the going $ for the SC Trap 34 inch shotgun, and traded it for a unaltered 1948 Pigeon Grade Win. Model 12- old milled rib- 30" Imp. Mod. (not the more commonly found Full Choke) perhaps I should be castigated (but in a gentlemanly fashion now Mr. Murphy)- Parkers were the guns of the gentry-and that tradition still continues on-Praises be to God--etc-- I was given the Parker single trap by a neighbor- a former State 16 yard Champion- but like so many trap shooters of that era-he would do almost anything to gain an extra target-either at 16 yards, or at his 25 yards handicap post (never shot doubles I guess) so he had it choked by Ohio gunsmith Herb Orre- all the years of solid shooting without ear plugs-etc- he developed a flinch- so he had a release trigger installed (but fortunately-kept the original mechanism) and as I got serious about trap shooting, and was used to the great Model 12, as my Dad gave me a field grade 20 gauge 28" mod. with solid rib in 1954-that was my "hunt with everything shotgun" well I guess I just decided I'd shoot Trap better with that Model 12 than the "Old Reliable SC Grade" and son-of-a-gun, I did-still do- I am not a skeet shooter- but read that Andover Mass was the home of the late William Harden Foster- a great and talented artist/illustrator and the "Father" of "shooting sround the clock" later changed to Skeet- a lady from MN in the l920's Grace Hulbert if memory serves- came up with that name in a contest- it comes from the Swedish word for "shoot"- I have shot "full choked skeet" and also "Chinese skeet" at area gun clubs- using that M12 Pigeon Grade Trap- when you are on a crossing target from the middle pegs-nothing but "dust in the wind" as in the great 1970's Kansas song- on the number 8 position- we "cheat- and take the close in target going out and away- still easy to miss- Tray, Skeet, Crazy Quail, Sporting Clays are all great target events-and you meet some nice fellows there at such events- but I get my serious target practice with shotguns on crows and barn pigeons-no clay target (in my limited experience) can duplicate a barn pigeon in a 50 mph wind-and pigeons (and their cousins the mourning doves) always "drop" to load their wings before launch mode-I agree with my shotgunning icon -Nash Buckingham- the greatest sporting targets awing are flighting doves or columbaire thrown pigeons-and crows, being wary and possessed with Chuck Yeager/Ted Williams degree eyesight, also have the same "drop back and down" habit when they sense gunfire as do decoying Canadas and Mallards- scaup-redheads-etc- they just "kick in the afterburners" like on a Phantom Fighter Jet and scream on through- In y opinion, hard to duplicate those flight speeds and evasive "chandells" with clay disks-I agree 100% with the PGCA Board- this is NOT a forum to "hawk or sell" Parkers or any other fine shotgun- it's for learned discussion amongst gentlemen/sportsmen- but as you seem to think I'm a bit sly (like the FOX) and not the 12 bore HE I own- I'll trot out for you (you can supplu the peat bog should you wish) my Grandfather O'Malley's words of wisdom to me-on me 12th B'Day- "Francis- always remember that in life you can either run with the Foxes or stumble with the Oxes" Guess which choice I made??
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Cooper Smith
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 03:32 pm |
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Mr. Morin,
While I assume your history lessons are interesting to many, I think it would be no more than common courtesy to start a new thread on your topics of interest, rather than hijack this topic which is (or was) specifically whether or not the PGCA should have a GUNS FOR SALE section. Your talent for obfuscation is only exceeded by a superfluous vicissitude regarding the topic at hand. Thanks for your future consideration.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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Mr. Morin, may I suggest you make your plans to come to the PGCA annual meeting in September at Pintail Point by Easton, MD. I'm sure you already know many people there. Many of the DuPont families live nearby and you may know them and many of the luminary names of eastern seaboard waterfowling are there also, many of them you probably also know. We can introduce you to Ed Muderlak, there may be much in mutual interest and you may find hours of conversation.
I'm out here on the Great Plains and don't get out much to those kind of places and get to know much, but you sound like you do.
____________________
Bruce Day
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:30 pm |
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| Oh Oh- Good thing my Jr. High School English teacher Angus P. McDonald taught us to spell antidisestablishmentarianism-and other such wordy words- My FUBAR again- I thought you had to be a paid up member of the PGCA in order to post a "Thread" on this most August website- as a newbie (believe I stated that, didn't I gentlemen) I believe the term "cut me some slack" might be if not apropos, then at least the je ne sans quoi (if Georges Grangers were the shotguns involved, n'ces pas?) I have read with exceedingly great interest the spirited chats about selling "Old Reliables" and the "Old Guard" vs the new blood- I am here to chat with other educated gentlemen gunners of the ilk such as Nash B. Burton Spiller Ray P. Holland Paul A. Curtis et al-who may prefer Parkers over other fine double guns (and who can fault their tastes in that) and I haven't yet decided to "join" in terms of expending the dinero required- both my late Granddad's AAH 12 bore Parkers were verified and appraised many years ago- so obtaining a letter (or is that letters?) of provenance at the fee(s) assessed is a moot point for me- if I have, albiet unknowingly, broken some rule of the PGCA- would I not be censured by a Board Member- I was "emoticomed" apparently by a brother Hibernian- whatever that entails, the gentleman did not elaborate- I am "Old School" born Nov 1940- so to me, Spamming means someone trying to make me a sandwicj from a can of pork shoulder "meat?"- and phising is like the pneumatic- the p is silent- therefore, superfluous. Doubt if I would ever entrust one of my doubles to the "tender mercies" of any airline- and I am not a real "clays shooter" been years since I shot any registered 16 yard Trap-but I do own two good grade Parkers, love history, great cigars and whiskeys-and of course dogs- if you are telling me that I am not "welcome" here, then why don't you please have the courtesy to come out and say so- Thanks
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Jerry Bauman
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 42 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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Francis, I guess they just don't like us old educators that feel playing fair and judging people equally is the correct thing to do.
I've met some of these so called gentleman in my office when junior screwed up and all they could do is blame the system. I learned long ago the kids aren't the problem, it's their damn parents.
Anyway I enjoy you ramblings and your wit with the English lanuage
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:48 pm |
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Mr. Morin, I am not aware of any violation of the Code of Conduct. PGCA membership is $40 per year for annual members or $500 for the basic ( DHE) grade life membership. Membership applications can be printed off from the home page listing.
There are many PGCA members of considerable knowledge and talent who are well versed in a variety of areas. They come from many walks of life and formal educations. Many are quite successful. You have been talking to many of them. Many are in their 50's, 60's and 70's and are personally acquainted with many of the matters you have raised.
We have a great group of Michigan members who get together and have fun shoots.
____________________
Bruce Day
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Francis Morin
BBS RO
| Joined: | Sun May 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 96 |
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:50 pm |
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| Dear Bruce Day; Thank you for the kind invite- my youngest sister lives in Ocean City MD (home of the great "Big Peckers" chicken coop restaurant- her late husband was one of the founding investors-although the "sister operation" right across the street, the equally famed "Brass Balls Saloon" is the best place for crabcakes along the entire seaboard. If I were to attend (after some negative comments about my apparent "obfuscations" by Bro Cooper Smith have been reviewed by the PTB here on this great forum- I wouldn't chance bringing either 12 bore Parker I own (thanks to my late Grandfather's kindness) as I consider that to be a risk similar to trying to pull a left barrel roll at altitude w/o a G-suit, if you get my drift- I do note that some members have their State and possibly their town of residence listed, other do not. I have an unlisted address and phone number- and believe in the great Irish wisdom of the late Prez. Ronald "Dutch" Reagan- who said "Trust everybody, buit always cut the cards".. So the next-door neighbor- a retired State Police Det. and I have a large Browning Gun Safe in the full baement of my farm house- I retired from the welding supply business- so I welded 304 garde 1/4" stainless steel plate behind the door up to the Sergeant and Greenleaf combination lock-and by the pivot bars- so that some would be B&E "gent" could not use a conventional small portable oxy-acetylene torch unit to cut into the front of the safe- he would need a plasma unit for that- I also had the heavy safe sent into a channel steel frame bolted into the poured floor- and after removing paint from the 4 bottom sides, arc (SMAW) welded with 308-16 stainless rod the actual safe box to the tightly fitted channel- skip welds - 4" on=skip-4"- doubled at the intersecting corners- you can weld all the mild and structual steels with stainless rods -as well as with the more commonly used AWS code rods: 6011-6013-7018LH- etc. and the advantage is that again, the oxy-acetylene cutting torch will NOT cut through the stainless welds- either an Air_Arc or a Plasma torch is required- All this "Wind in the willows- if I may paraphrase the late Jack O'Connor here" just indicates what an unsafe world in which we have to live- in my GrandFather's day- he kept his shotguns in a backroom closet- any "burglar" could have walked into their unlocked house on Division Street in Cincinnati-Today, only fools would be that trusting- and as far as being foolish and trusting- I am also a student of the late Smauel Langhorne (not Longhorn) Clemens- aka- Mark Twain- He said "Clothes make the man- and the fine gentleman gunner named Destry in the great Beaver Dam article herein proves that- to the "nines"- but he also said my favorite "watchword" for experience being a harsh teacher; "A cat who has sat on a hot stove once will never walk into a kitchen again"..
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