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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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| Jeff , thats where I am on this, for what its worth. The BATFE has been a non issue for years, its administration and divisiveness. People are too quick to publicly run down somebody else's gun and when the gun and comments are right here, its very immediate and the PGCA suffers. The guns sometimes get to be like people's kids and dogs and the seller had better have a thick skin.
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Bruce Day
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Destry Hoffard
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 3044 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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Bruce that's kind of a silly reason to be against selling guns on the BBS. People post guns for sale in Parker Pages all the time but do guys get on here and run them down? I've never seen it happen.
DLH
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The member formerly known as Market Hunter
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Brad Steinfeld
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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Would it be possible to restrict all communication about a gun that had been posted on the web site to only PM between a PGCA seller and buyer?
Would this require more policing than a small volunteer based organization could and should muster ?
??
Brad
Last edited on Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:14 pm by Brad Steinfeld
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:23 pm |
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No, not from the Parker Pages, because its not immediate. But would be here where you have both sales and buys right here right now. But we have had instances where a gun for sale by a PGCA member on another site gets run down , correctly or incorrectly, on this site. Having sales and buys together right here promotes divisiveness and hard feelings in my opinion. Look, my opinion is only that , but I would have to be crazy to subject some object that I spent money on and the attachment we get with our guns to the kind of public abuse that we sometimes see here. Cabelas, Puglisi, the examples are many and they keep occuring despite cautions. And how does the PGCA come out ahead with that situation?
I can imagine a PGCA member from Cabelas( for example only) dumping 50 Parkers on the website and then all the people chiming in about this wrong or that wrong and priced too high and while we are trying to approach Cabelas to be a corporate sponsor for some event. Now if I am crazy and out of line to even think this might happen tell me, but don't forget some of the threads we've seen here before.
Last edited on Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:40 pm by Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:34 pm |
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| I can see only one benefit to members of the PGCA if gun sales were allowed on the PGCA website and that it the savings of a commission paid to someone like Puglisi's or Ivory Beads or Robin Hollow or Gunbroker or Julia's. Doublegunshop depends on the honor system of paying a pittance to Dave Webber for the sale of a gun so that system is attractive to us for that very reason. For the life of me I can't think of any other benefit to PGCA members but I can see or anticipate a lot of negatives, exactly like the ones Bruce Day explains.
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Eric Eis
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 983 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:41 pm |
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| Sorry Bruce I don't agree, I don't think people will criticize a gun that is put up for sale on this board, I rarely see it on Doublegun.com so why would this BBS be different? If anything I think the people here have more respect for each other, that is much different then a commercial site like Cabelas. Sorry I think we need to look at this policy closer maybe discuss it at the Southern, just a thought. Eric
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Jerry Bauman
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 42 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:42 pm |
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I've purchased and sold a number of guns on different sites such as Trapshooters.com and 24hour Campfire.
Any internet site available to the general public is like a newspaper. Even if you have to register to participate, it's the same as buying a subscription to the newspaper.
The site has nothing to do with the sale of the gun, it's just a place to advertise what you have for sale, just like the sporting goods classified section.
Selling a gun via the internet requires you do send it to a licensed FFL dealer in the state of the person who's buying it, the FFL dealer then does the required paperwork for the buyer. In some states you may sell and ship directly to the buyer if he's located in your state. Again, the site has nothing to do with the transaction.
It's not rocket science just to add a category for "selling" or "wanting to buy"
Most sites don't require someone to monitor this and if the person sells the gun he reports it as being sold, or in time it just get buried way down the list unless he continues to bring it back to the top.
All you really need to do is visit a few of these sites and see how it's done, not a lot of time or talent required.
And yes, you're going to get feedback as to the price, condition, description and who you are, but then that's what you need to expect if this is how you want to sell your gun.
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Dave Suponski
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 06:54 pm |
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Dean,I think it all boils down to having some ettiqutte( spelled right?)If a poster of a gun asks for opinions then he gets what he gets.And we all know the old adage about opinions....
Some people offer hard earned insight, real experience and knowledge. Others just opinions....right or wrong
Dave...
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Dave....
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Dave Miles
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1730 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 07:00 pm |
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| Usually when a gun is picked apart on this site, someone has posted a picture or a link, asking for opinions. I see no reason to pick apart a gun posted for sale. If you're interested in the gun, you e-mail or PM the seller with questions. If someone had a gun listed on this site for sale, and I had a doubt about something with it. I would PM another member for his opinion. The least we could do, is give it a 3 month trial period.
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John Dunkle
Guest
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 07:26 pm |
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Dave and Dave have it right....
Here are some "real life stats" of running classifieds on my websites (2 firearm collector sites & one rather large automotive site);
Site 1)
Classifieds my be VIEWED by guests - and POSTED to by folks "registered" to the BBS. Stats.... 5,780 total posts in the forsale/wanted sections. Flames in the forsale section (before they are removed by "me" - about 3%
Site 2)
Classifieds my be VIEWED and POSTED to by folks "registered" to the BBS - if they are "not registered" - they see "nothing". Stats.... 8200 total posts in the forsale/wanted sections. Flames in the forsale section (before they are removed by "me" - about 1%
Site 3)
Classifieds my be VIEWED and POSTED ONLY BY PAYING MEMBERS - folks "registered" to the BBS and "not registered" - they see "nothing". Stats.... 25,000+ total posts in the forsale/wanted sections. Flames in the forsale section (before they are removed by "me" - less than ONE POST/THREAD PER YEAR
Anyway - you can probably guess where I am on all this - and if it's done "right", could be something "good". If it's done without guidance and guidelines - it becomes problematic. And, by the way, the suggestion to make it "Member to Member" is pragmatic - and has nothing (zero, zilch, nada) to do with forcing folks to become Members. I'd give a diatribe as to why - but, I've BTDT for over a decade... Heck I was doing it for years before Gore invented the Internet....
Have a nice day,
John D.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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Jerry Bauman, the web sites you mention are not association sites . We are. The purpose of this site is to increase knowlege and interest in Parkers. We have to think of the interests of all our members and present the best face for potential new members. We are a very different site and with different goals than Trapshooters.com or a chat site like 24 hour campfire. We are funded entirely by the membership.
Jerry, are you a PGCA member? I don't see your name on the latest roster unless you just joined.
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Bruce Day
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Richard Dow
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Wed Apr 20th, 2005 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 145 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 27th, 2008 09:30 pm |
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Why post pictures in public at all? Just list a gun for sale and let members request
pictures to their own e-mail. RD Sorry Brad-You already said that.
Last edited on Thu Mar 27th, 2008 09:32 pm by Richard Dow
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Destry Hoffard
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:58 am |
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The Remington Society apparently doesn't fear guns for sale on their website, not many showing but there are some.
DLH
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The member formerly known as Market Hunter
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Eric Eis
PGCA Member
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| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 12:04 pm |
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| What difference does it make if we are an association or not, it is not going to change the nature of this BBS if we allow Parker guns to be sold on this board and how would this not be in the best interest of our members or future members? That just does not make any sense....Eric
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 12:32 pm |
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| I have no confirmed opinion on this discussion, but I have noticed that no one ever posts, pro or con, about anything offered for sale in the Parker Pages. Similarly, hardly anyone ever comments on things for sale on Dave Weber's site except to complain that sellers are not replying to inquiries in a timely manner. This complaint probably originates in people's nature not to reply to PMs or to answer questions about a gun that is already sold.
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Lon E. Morris
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 01:25 pm |
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Gents,
I still do not advocate an opinion one way or the other!
However, I think their are some people hiding their heads in the sand, regarding civil nature of this forum. There have been some truly outrageous remarks made about Parker Guns posted for information and pricing! Frankly, I considered them rude! I have had my head handed to me on this forum, and in retrospect probably deserved the treatment.
We can bash ourselves to death and it is not going to do any good! We have to request a decision from the Board of Directors.
Bruce Day, has brought an interesting point, in that it appears a non-member started this thread, and retired when confronted.
Sincerely,
Lon
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Jerry Bauman
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 42 |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 02:29 pm |
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Lon, I've not retired or retreated, it's just that this site is not on my everyday view list.
I'm not a PGCA member because my interest in Parkers only goes to the one I own. I'm not interested in being a collector, nor am I a diehard Parker nut. I did take the time to request and pay the non-member fee to receive a letter on my Parker.
When I do find a Parker listed on some other site I bring it over here as a courtesy to the people here who may not have seen it on that site. I did this on some Parker Repro's and got jumped on with a nasty e-mail and my post being deleated. It was only then did I bring up the unfairness of this site and pointed out other examples of guns being advertised but not deleated.
I see now there seems to be some discontent and questions about policy here. Being a non member and still getting this kind of responce to my post should be an indication to members that's all's not well in Parkerville and some discussion may need to be done about it.
It's nice that there is an organization for Parker lovers, I appreciate the site and the info. available here, and wish it success, but it's not an organization I want to join at this time.
Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 02:32 pm by Jerry Bauman
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Lon E. Morris
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 03:10 pm |
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Jerry,
I think it is very admirable of you to respond, and my hat is off to you! However, it does not cost much to join the PGCA and if for no other reason than the Parker Pages subscription it is truly worth the price of admission. Please consider joining us, as this organization does need new blood.
Sincerely, Lon
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Erick Dorr
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 132 |
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 03:42 pm |
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Jerry, Greg offered a rational explanation for the removal of your post. I don't think you were jumped on. I myself have posted info pointing people to links that I think may contain a Parker or parts that others may find interesting. I have never had such a post deleted. Every such post by me has stated I have no financial interest in the item. My advice is to get over it and get on with life.
In an earlier post I said I was in favor of a Parkers for Sale Forum. However, I think that Jeff made a a valid point about education and advise vs commerce. It persuades me to choose the status quo over a change.
Last night I checked out the LC Smith and Fox Collectors sites. It seems this topic is being pushed on at least one site by some of the same individuals. From what I learned neither of these other 2 sites allows the offering of guns for sale either. I would guess that the PGCA forum predates either of the other 2 sites and that each found PGCA admirable enough to emulate the format. Erick
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Ben Yarian
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 30th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 02:18 am |
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I don't really have any druthers either way. But if the PGCA were to allow the advertising of guns for sale, I hope it would only be a list of classified ads, not allowing responses. this would allow a potential buyer to contact a seller in private. their communication/negotiations would not be viewed by everyone. Also it would not allow responses to be posted thus would not have people flaming the gun or the seller. Also maybe the issues brought up by Jeff Mulliken (witch I understand) won't be an issue. Just my .02 worth.
Ben
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