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Dave Miles
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| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 12:34 pm |
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 01:23 pm |
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Mr. Murphy:
I guess the next step will be to get a letter. I send in a request today.
Thanks, Al Zinn
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Albert E. Zinn
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Frank DAmico
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 5th, 2005 |
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| Posts: | 1086 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 01:31 pm |
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 01:31 pm |
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 01:32 pm |
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Larry Frey
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| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 02:00 pm |
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| To answer an earlier question regarding the DHBP pg.42 of the serialization book says the DHBP replaced the SBP on grade 2 and below starting in 1878. This date would work for Al's gun. The example shown was of a dog without the bird in mouth.
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 02:56 pm |
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Mr. Frey:
Thanks for your reply regarding the DGBP. I obviously am a novice on these guns, but it sure looks like original wood to me-the wood to metal fit is perfect. If it was, in fact, a restock, it must have been done at the factory a long time ago.
Let see what he letter says - I sent in the application today.
Al
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Albert E. Zinn
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Bill Murphy
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 03:08 pm |
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| When I mentioned a restock and the possibility of the restock appearing in the order books, I did, in fact, refer to a factory restock, which would be of exceptional quality. Repairs are included in order book entries. As a matter of fact, some order books are 300 pages of repairs and parts orders. Members of the 1998 PGCA Research Team were almost suicidal when the "next book to be copied" was a Repair Book because it implied several hours of boredom compared to the 2 guys at the next Zerox machine who had 300 pages of new guns to examine. Our present PGCA researcher examines repair book entries as well as new gun entries when preparing documentation letters. If your gun was restocked and the order book in which the restock was entered exists in the PGCA files, you will find mention of it in your letter. However, recent posts indicate that the "rubber butt" was introduced about the time of the manufacture of your gun.
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Larry Frey
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| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 03:21 pm |
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| Al, I probably know less than most here about these old guns. I bought my first hammer gun just this year and it has been a learning experience. Any information I gave was derived from two sources which if you don't already own them you most likely will. Your's is a wonderful gun and I doubt seriously that it was restocked but perhaps at some time in the last 128 years someone replaced the DHBP as they are easily chipped or cracked. I don't believe this would in any way affect the value of this fine gun. As Bruce Day said earlier please consider joining the PGCA as they represent a great bunch of guys and offer a wealth of knowledge to those interested in these fine old guns. Larry
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Fred Preston
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 4th, 2005 |
| Location: | Red Haw, Ohio USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 03:27 pm |
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My 1878 plain twist 10ga, #12165, has the steel BP; also, no checking on the stock. The pic of the DHBP of #13011 shows the dog with bird like that on my 1884 0 grade 12ga, #1 frame lifter.
Last edited on Wed Aug 30th, 2006 05:53 pm by Fred Preston
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John Davis
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Vienna, Georgia USA |
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 03:32 pm |
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| My most recent acquistion is a 10 gauge, E grade, underlifter made around 1881. It has a DHBP but not the correct one for that time period. I'm sure it was, as Larry suggests, replaced over the last 125 years. That is of little consequence to me and the least of my worries.
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Larry Frey
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 03:35 pm |
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| 1880 plain twist 16 gage (18720) also has a steel BP which shows there wasn't much consistency at the time.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 04:08 pm |
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| My hammer 16 Grade #2, serial number 54,369 has a dogs head "rubber butt". My other hammer 16 Grade #2 serial number 172,662 also has a "rubber butt". The early gun is "snipe in mouth" variety, which is usually a #1 frame "rubber butt". The later gun is the "setter puppy who will not hold a bird" variety, which is normally a 0 frame "rubber butt".
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James T. Kucaba
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 10:12 pm |
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Austin ... Yes, my 20 gauge Lifter Gun SN 10165 does have a Skeleton Butt Plate, but there is no checkering on the wood in the center of the butt plate ... It just has plain wood with that's finished to match the rest of the stock ... There's not a drop of checkering anywhere on the wood.
Jim Kucaba ... Phoenix, AriZOOna ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com
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"The price of critics NEVER changes ... They're ALWAYS a dime a dozen !"
"Those Who Matter Don't Judge Me ... Those Who Judge Me Don't Matter !"
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Wed Aug 30th, 2006 10:28 pm |
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Larry:
Is the Meriden Gun Shop still there? I used to visit there often.
Al
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Albert E. Zinn
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Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 12:19 am |
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| No it's long gone. I've lived in this area all my life and went to school in Meriden and as far as I know aside from a few pawn shops there are no gun shops in that town.
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 07:46 pm |
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Mr. Murphy:
How would you describe the BHBP on my 16? By the way, a gunsmith friend in MI is sending me over his bore gages to check the wall thickness. After all, the original intent was to obtain a gun to shoot.
If these barrels are too thin to safely shoot, or the research letter suggests the gun is too valuableto shoot, then I'll have to think about what my options are.
Regards, Al Zinn aezinn1@juno.com
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Albert E. Zinn
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Frank DAmico
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 5th, 2005 |
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Posted: Thu Aug 31st, 2006 08:20 pm |
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Al, sounds like a good excuse for a 2nd Parker to me. Although the consensus seems to be that you may have a rare Parker, if the bbls are sound you should shoot that sweet gun. You're not going to do anything it wasn't intended for if you use the right loads.
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 11:20 am |
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Frank:
That would imply that I could afford a second Parker, which is certainly not the case at this point. Obtaining the first one has exhausted all available "mad money". No, this little gun will have to earn its keep by busting some clay birds and, hopefully, harassing a partridge or two this Fall.
A agree with you - the gun was meant to shoot and I'm really hoping that, with some appropriate handloads, the barrels will prove up to the task. If not, or it turns out to be especially rare, some of you gentlemen will get the chance to own her, and I'll look for something more shootable.
AL Zinn
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Albert E. Zinn
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Austin Hogan
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 15th, 2005 |
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 01:17 pm |
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The plain steel butt plate was available, and fairly popular, through the 30,000 s/n range. I haven't tried to make the swap, but the machine inletting of the butt seems the same for plain steel or DHBP.
There are many Parkers without any checking or engraving in the 5 - 10,000 serial range, but I don't remember any with engraving but no checking
The barrel ribs on this gun are clearly roll marked Plain Twist, although the photo of the barrel flats carries an "M" as steel designator instead of "T" or umbrella T. These few 16 ga tubes may have come from a different supplier. A large fraction of lifter sixteens were laminated steel.
It is interesting that Parker retooled to make the smaller zero frame to sell less than 100 lifter sixteens. The number of sixteens is comprable to the number of eights. There are some early one frame twelves that were filed to zero frame outside dimensions to produce seven pound twelves. The zero frame might have been initiated for light twelves, and adopted to sixteens.
These early Parkers are often the most interesting.
Best, Austin
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