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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 12:55 pm |
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Greg, though it may not have been clear we are agreeing. There is a disparity.
I think that the reason is that the ratio of Shelby's to the number of people who want a Shelby is higher than the same ratio for high grade Parkers. That is ok with me. I'd rather drive my 4Runner with a trunk full of Parkers than own a Shelby GT 350!
Jeff
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 01:00 pm |
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| Its the old two edged sword, those of you with Parkers already collected are getting nice values, those of us just starting are paying the price. such is life.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 01:07 pm |
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| The people that started early are still buying at today's prices (and liking it). There is absolutely no difference between a guy with 50 Parkers in the safe paying $8500 for a high condition 12 gauge DHE and a guy with no Parkers in the safe making the same purchase. When those two guns are sold at the same auction house 20 years from now, the appreciation will be the same. The guy with the 50 Parkers probably has a bigger checkbook, but maybe not. Either way, the 50 Parkers in the safe have absolutely nothing to do with anything. I promise to sit back for awhile and read the posts telling me why I'm wrong. Last edited on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 01:09 pm by Bill Murphy
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 01:34 pm |
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Jeff, you're right on target! Me too!
Frank, better late than never! I'm just getting started myself with only two nice ones, two with possibilities and one clunker that is worth several times the $ I have in it.
The problem I am faced with is a Parker that would be the centerpiece of my collection but the asking price is, in my opinion, fully twice the actual value of the gun, judging by hammer prices realized in the recent Julia auction and others of similar, desirable Parkers. 
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 02:10 pm |
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| At this time I really only have 2 areas of interest in my newfound collecting urge, Parkers and Superposed. I had a fairly large amount of cash sitting uselessly in an account of which I decided to spend about half on the above. My rationalzation is how badly my SEP retirement account has been bleeding lately (its mostly in mutual type funds) and property prices are even more ridiculous than Parker prices so I'm not going there at this time. At least the money I put into these should keep pace with inflation, I hope, as long as I make careful decisions. I have acquired a nice Superposed, a nice DH, a very nice BHE repro 20ga and a plain jane VH 12 ga thats nice and tight. I also have my Grandfathers gun that didn't cost me anything. Although I will probably pick up the Parker 20ga I've been talking about I think my strategy from here on for the time being will be to acquire only those guns I stumble on that are VERY good deals and try to stay away from guns being marketed with already inflated prices. Contrary to what you may think,I'm not whining about prices and agree with you guys completely. I just get a bad taste in my mouth when I pay too much for anything, be it guns, bikes, cars, or whatever. I think the key to any of this stuff I feel is to ONLY pay cash money for your toys. Last edited on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 02:11 pm by Frank DAmico
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 03:02 pm |
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You mean I shouldn't use my Visa card or take out a bank loan?? 
How else can I afford the high grade, high condition Parkers? 
Last edited on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 03:02 pm by Dean Romig
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Frank DAmico
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Posted: Tue Jan 17th, 2006 03:27 pm |
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| Dean, its ok to use your visa as long a you pay it off at the end of the month.
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Larry Frey
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 12:18 am |
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A look thru a 1964 release of The Shooters Bible Gun Traders Guide shows the following prices for 12 gage models. VHE-$275.00 DHE-$350.00 AHE-$850.00 A1S-$1,600.00. I don't know if given today’s prices this would beat the market but I sure wish I started collecting sooner. Larry
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Greg Connors
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 12:25 am |
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Plus, Larry, in 1964 the guns were in better condition and the selection was better!
Of course, $1600 was some serious coin in 1964.
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Dave Suponski
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 02:28 am |
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| I was once told a long time ago from a collector of Parkers" You can,t pay to much for a Parker.You can only pay it too soon" Judging from the prices of late he was probably right! Dave...
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Dave....
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2006 03:15 am |
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Dave, that's an excellent quote. I'd like to have your permission to use it on "Kate".
In fact, a little reinforcement on your behalf whenever you talk to her might be in my favor. I would be forever indebted to ya. 
Dean (your good buddy)
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Bob Vilmur
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Posted: Thu Jan 19th, 2006 06:54 pm |
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Speculation and a Few More Clues on A-1 Ownership/Little John's Auction
There were several shotguns offered from the same source : the two A-1s, a Purdey 12, engraved A-5 12s and 16s with multibarrel sets, a BHE 16 needing restoration according to Little John, a CHE, a Purdey 410 that was described a one of a suite of three and completed in 1953, and a highly engraved, perhaps, Merkel.
Small clues are perhaps contained in descriptive phraseology for the various guns and I paraphrase: "A Beverly Hills businessman and connoesseur, shortly before WWII - - the individual was well known in shooting circles that included Gable, Cooper, John Huston and Hollywood and Los Angeles personalities of the Gold Era - - left to heirs and never offered for sale - - remained in the original family since purchase in the late 1930s, or early 1940s - - (the gun referred to here was the A-1 28) - - was in a serial number range near Gable's and Huston's guns - - 1930 - 1950s era - - ."
The BHE that was described as worn was further descibed as including the initials "WGL or WLG". The Purdey 410, held an upper bid estimate of 130k.
Last edited on Fri Jan 20th, 2006 06:20 am by Bob Vilmur
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Bill Zachow
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 01:11 am |
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| Greg, you must consider two items, at least, when you compare a Henry's valuation to that of a rare Parker--small bore, high grade. 1) There are many more people collecting Winchesters, and civil war era guns than ever thought of collecting Parkers. 2) Henrys were used and used hard; most no longer exist. Those that remain in decent or excellent condition are as scarce or scarcer than a high grade, small bore Parker. Since there are easily 10 times as many collectors pursueing the Henry as the Parker, the price is going to be much higher. Pure and simple, it is a case of supply and demand. The same analysis applies to Colt peacemakers. Having collected all three brands and models over the past 30 years, I know whereof I speak.
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 07:51 am |
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Sounds almost like they could be guns from Alex Kerr but those certainly aren't his initials. As far as I know, most of his collection has never come out. They did sell what was supposedly his collection of fruit jars a few years ago but I've heard people say they think those might have been the high grade duplicates. I know for a fact his target ball collection has never been offered
Destry
____________________
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 02:05 pm |
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| The initials may be a red herring. If the auctioneers know who the famous person is, the order of the initials would not be in doubt. They are probably not the initials of the "famous person". This shouldn't be that much of a mystery. Apparently, more than one of the guns had the person's name engraved on it or a nameplate. Anyone who was there would know.
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Bob Vilmur
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 03:49 pm |
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| FWIW, this was the only gun of the lot that was described in worn condition. All the other stuff was top-drawer.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 05:17 pm |
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| Bob, all my drawers are worn. That's why I can afford these Parkers.
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Bob Vilmur
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 07:14 pm |
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Regarding Alex Kerr, Destry's input made me re-examine Bill's and my earlier posts on this subject. Realize I omitted noting that Kerr's was regularly mentioned in the descriptions as the source of many of the guns. In fact, Kerr's seems to have been a kind of shotgun hub in those days for all the mentioned notables, including a non mentioned Robert Stack.
What I ponder in the descriptive stuff I did pull out of Little John's material was that accounts seem to end in the Fifties. I remember visiting Kerr's as a wide-eyed young man (with drawers equally worn to those described by Bill) back in the early 1960s. That shop was very alive and very well. Kerr was inducted into the Shooting Hall of Fame, in 1972, and also did a column in Guns and Ammo during this period.
I took a fast run thru Google on "Alex Kerr Gun" and what popped out in addition to glass target balls was his fondness for Winchester 21s. I didn't see any 21's noted in the auction.
Can anyone pull out another Hollywood star, producer, director, studio owner, etc. who buddied with the likes of Cooper, Gable and Sam Houston, had a passion for quallity doubles, had the resources to order three Purdeys at a shot, and who left us - - as well as a family - - in the 1950s/early 1960s?
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 10:10 pm |
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| I will reread Stack's bio (more correctly autobio) to search for possibilities, but how would we know? Answer is: be at the auction and look at the nameplates on the guns.
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Bob Vilmur
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Posted: Fri Jan 20th, 2006 11:21 pm |
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Bill: Yeah, Stack was active with the Kerr's bunch. Talked to a friend yesterday who recounted being there in '65/6, had bought a new Scott gun and upon its arrival was escorted to a side room to inspect it for the first time. Bending over the case, he recounted that a voice had come from behind to the effect that that was one hell of a good looking gun. It was Stack, a very decent man, in his opinion. Friend said he still has the gun.
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