Chokes and Chambers

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Steve Havener

Bruce I don't know where or when you got you AA hull but they short changed you.

Well I'll be. They sure did and lots of times too. And so did Remington with those sts shells. No wonder I missed.

Sam, TPS has a whole chapter on chambers and bores. The answers to your questions are yes yes and yes. I have a bunch from 1883 to 1910 and chamber size is not something I worry about. Some I shoot at ducks with some heavy commercial loads , when I go duck hunting which is once a year or so to remind me about sitting in an icy blind and getting up at 4 am.

[Researcher]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

A couple of auctions ago SoldUSA had a 3-inch 16-gauge shell in their offerings --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pse202d0d6.jpg



I'm beginning to think the old Pigeon and Trap shooters shot up all those long 12-gauge shells!! I am sure not finding any in the auctions. I've gotten a pretty good selection of 3-inch 20-gauge shells from 1910 to the early 1930s vintage, but the 12-gauge just haven't come my way. From the introduction of the Lubaloy shot in 1929 thru 1949, Western Cartridge Co. offered a 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X Pigeon and trap load with 1 1/4 ounce of #7L or #7 1/2L, but I've yet to see a box of those appear.

A few years ago while bird hunting out in the Channeled Scablands I picked up a fired Winchester Leader 3-inch 12-gauge shell of about 1920 vintage. I have no idea how long it was laying out there but the paper tube was faded white except for about a 1/2 inch wide strip that was against the ground that is still pinkish. While it is dry country, I'm sure someone was out there hunting using up Grandpa's old shells in much more recent times.

[Researcher]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

A couple of auctions ago SoldUSA had a 3-inch 16-gauge shell in their offerings --





I'm beginning to think the old Pigeon and Trap shooters shot up all those long 12-gauge shells!! I am sure not finding any in the auctions. I've gotten a pretty good selection of 3-inch 20-gauge shells from 1910 to the early 1930s vintage, but the 12-gauge just haven't come my way. From the introduction of the Lubaloy shot in 1929 thru 1949, Western Cartridge Co. offered a 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X Pigeon and trap load with 1 1/4 ounce of #7L or #7 1/2L, but I've yet to see a box of those appear.

A few years ago while bird hunting out in the Channeled Scablands I picked up a fired Winchester Leader 3-inch 12-gauge shell of about 1920 vintage. I have no idea how long it was laying out there but the paper tube was faded white except for about a 1/2 inch wide strip that was against the ground that is still pinkish. While it is dry country, I'm sure someone was out there hunting using up Grandpa's old shells in much more recent times.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

See below

Also see the attached Parker chamber length table.

Bruce did you wash those hulls in hot water? Maybe yours shrunk in the hot Kansas sun? Up here in the cool climate of the northern New England the AA and STS 12ga hulls are 2 3/4".

[Bruce Day]

I'll send more photos when I get back to my reloading bench at the other house. You guys up on the northeast always bragging about how long it is. Sheesh

[Sam Hershfield]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

Well I'll be. They sure did and lots of times too. And so did Remington with those sts shells. No wonder I missed.

Sam, TPS has a whole chapter on chambers and bores. The answers to your questions are yes yes and yes. I have a bunch from 1883 to 1910 and chamber size is not something I worry about. Some I shoot at ducks with some heavy commercial loads , when I go duck hunting which is once a year or so to remind me about sitting in an icy blind and getting up at 4 am.

Bruce, thanks for giving me answers. I'll try the 2 1/2's first and see what happens.

I don't have TPS...maybe my wife will buy them for me for Xmas

Sam

[C.O.B.]

Sam you can do anything with a 2 1/2 inch shell that a 2 3/4 inch one will do except you never have to worry about chamber length.

[Sheepherder]

Gentlemen,
I can see that a star crimped 2 3/4" shell, is 2 3/4" long when fired.
My question is: In the early 1900's, were the old rolled crimp shells, 2 3/4" long after being fired or were they a little shorter. I have no fired OLD roll crimped shells handy to measure.

[Larry the Gun Guy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

I'll send more photos when I get back to my reloading bench at the other house. You guys up on the northeast always bragging about how long it is. Sheesh

You know I don't have to watch TV for entertainment; it's all right here.

Education, entertainment, development of the common shooter and just plain fun!

You guys are a regular PBS all in one.


BTW, on page 67 of the "Winchester's Finest The Model 21" by Ned Schwing it shows a photograph of a Model 21 marked on the side of the barrel:
"Winchester 16 Gauge
3" Cham."

So at some point they were out there.

Last year Jim King had at 3" 16 Gauge Model 21 for sale on GI.

[Steve Havener]

Originally Posted by Hal Sheets

Gentlemen,
I can see that a star crimped 2 3/4" shell, is 2 3/4" long when fired.
My question is: In the early 1900's, were the old rolled crimp shells, 2 3/4" long after being fired or were they a little shorter.

2 3/4 inch shells are 2 3/4 inches long (within manufactures tolerance) weather they were closed with a folded (star) crimp or with an over shot card and roll crimp.