Chokes and Chambers

[Bruce Day]

See below

Also see the attached Parker chamber length table.

[C.O.B.]

I error on the side of caution and shoot 2 1/2 inch shells in everything from 12 to 410. I don't have to worry about anything that way and if your going to buy shells I would use the 2 1/2 inch RST. Morris just sent me some 16 & 20 ga paper shells that I will use for birds. You can't beat a vintage shotgun and paper shells.

[Steve Havener]

Bruce I don't know where or when you got you AA hull but they short changed you.

[Researcher]

Paper Shot Shell Lengths

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shot shells is in the 1889 catalogue, before they were offering any smokeless powder shells. Smokeless powder begins appearing in the 1891 catalogue. After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shot shell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shot shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage. The maximum smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell and the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell were a bit lighter than those offered in 2 ¾ inch and longer shells. Early on, one could get smokeless powder loads as heavy as 3 1/4 drams pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot in a 2 5/8 inch paper shell. Between 1903 and 1910 our manufacturers phased out the 1 1/4 ounce loads in the 2 5/8 inch shell. By 1910 the 2 5/8 inch paper shell was only being offered with 1 1/8 or lighter payloads, and one needed to go to the 2 3/4 inch or longer shells for 1 1/4 ounce loads.

Our U.S. manufacturers continued to offer the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells until just after WW-II.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Paper Shot Shell Lengths

After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths,

I wonder where all the 10 gauge guns are with 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" chambers for 2 5/8" and 2 7/8" shells?

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Steve Havener

Bruce I don't know where or when you got you AA hull but they short changed you.

Well I'll be. They sure did and lots of times too. And so did Remington with those sts shells. No wonder I missed.

Sam, TPS has a whole chapter on chambers and bores. The answers to your questions are yes yes and yes. I have a bunch from 1883 to 1910 and chamber size is not something I worry about. Some I shoot at ducks with some heavy commercial loads , when I go duck hunting which is once a year or so to remind me about sitting in an icy blind and getting up at 4 am.

[Sam Hershfield]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

Well I'll be. They sure did and lots of times too. And so did Remington with those sts shells. No wonder I missed.

Sam, TPS has a whole chapter on chambers and bores. The answers to your questions are yes yes and yes. I have a bunch from 1883 to 1910 and chamber size is not something I worry about. Some I shoot at ducks with some heavy commercial loads , when I go duck hunting which is once a year or so to remind me about sitting in an icy blind and getting up at 4 am.

Bruce, thanks for giving me answers. I'll try the 2 1/2's first and see what happens.

I don't have TPS...maybe my wife will buy them for me for Xmas

Sam

[C.O.B.]

Sam you can do anything with a 2 1/2 inch shell that a 2 3/4 inch one will do except you never have to worry about chamber length.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

See below

Also see the attached Parker chamber length table.

Bruce did you wash those hulls in hot water? Maybe yours shrunk in the hot Kansas sun? Up here in the cool climate of the northern New England the AA and STS 12ga hulls are 2 3/4".