| Author | Post |
|---|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 02:07 pm |
|
| What prevents the use of smokeless in brass shells?
|
Dave Miles
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1730 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 02:12 pm |
|
Bill Murphy wrote: What prevents the use of smokeless in brass shells?
Nothing. You can use smokeless powders. Paul just likes to make smoke. 
|
King Brown
BBS Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 268 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 02:15 pm |
|
| I'm shooting smokeless no-problem in RMC 16ga brass, as are others on the board, with all the nostalgia except for the smoke (which I can do without). Last edited on Wed Nov 14th, 2007 02:18 pm by King Brown
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 03:00 pm |
|
| Thanks for the info. I have RMC brass for my eights and would prefer to work up smokeless loads rather than black. My old paper eights are about worn out and my new stash of plastic Remingtons has the extra base that has to be removed or resized.
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 02:31 pm |
|
| I have tried smokeless for 12ga brass - a 10ga plastic wad will fit but was told it ups the PSI because of the 10ga wad trying to go through a 12ga barrel, so I quit that. Not having any data for 12ga useing fiber wads I played around a little [ used 10% more powder over a plastic wad recipe] going by felt recoil and watching if there was still unburnt powder in the barrel. But without a means to test for pressure I also stopped that. If I remember correctly I was useing 25grs of IMR PB [ most loads in a Remington hull are from 20 to 23grs] and there was still alot of unburnt powder in the barrel. How does someone deceide what to load in a brass hull useing fiber wads ? I'm useing the Magtach 12ga brass. Paul
|
Destry Hoffard
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 3044 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 03:58 pm |
|
Bill,
Try those plastic hulls in your guns, sometimes they'll go right in without a re-size. They won't in mine but I've seen two different ones that they would.
Destry
____________________
The member formerly known as Market Hunter
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 03:59 pm |
|
Older Parker shotguns often have bores that are consistent with ten gauge fiber wad dimensions. The conversion by Parker Brothers from 11 gauge bores in 12 gauge guns (.745 to .750) to standard 12 gauge bores (.729 to .735) happened around 1894 or 1895. One thing to be aware of is that some older guns have squared off chambers at the forcing cone and should only be shot with shells that closely fit the chamber. If we are unsure of the pressure crated by using 10 gauge fiber wads in 12 gauge brass shells and standard 12 gauge bores, order 11 gauge fiber wads from Circle Fly. Personally, I would use 12 gauge wads unless they were really loose in the shell.
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 04:32 pm |
|
| Bill, thanks for the information. In the 12ga Magtechs I use a 10ga nitro card, an 11ga filler, and a 10ga overshot card. What I don't know is how much smokeless powder to use. Because of the bigger area [ thin walls of a brass case] and fiber wads it appears the necessary presure is not being reached. I say this because of all the unburnt powder in the barrel . Where do I start for the amount of powder to use? Paul
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 04:58 pm |
|
| PB is pretty slow for light loads in a 12 gauge. I am not surprised that you have unburned powder in the barrel.
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 05:54 pm |
|
| what do you use ? Paul
|
Harry Collins
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 06:05 pm |
|
With Berdan primers, I had bloopers with 7625. Green Dot fired just fine, but I have no data. Hammer Double brass shell use 209 primers and their data for a 1 1/8 oz load @1154 fps is 32 grains of 7625, one over powder card, two cushion wads, shot and one over shot card @3350 psi.
Harry
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 06:46 pm |
|
| I've had the same problem with SR4756. Pressures that low are very unstable- FPS and PSI will vary quite a bit. And in cold weather forget it. I didn't realize PB was a slow burning powder - I see it listed for 24gm loads. Also noticed 700-X for them but with more pressure so I guess it's a bit faster. I have 50#'s of Nitro100 - didn't notice any loads for them with the 10ga- but maybe with my 12ga brass shells. Paul
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 07:03 pm |
|
| Harry, if you'll notice in the IMR handbook, the biggest 7625 charge listed is 28.5grs in a Federal hull [ for 1 1/8 of shot]. Now, you're useing a brass hull [ more volume] and fiber wads and a over card glued in which means less resistance. That's why you're at 3350psi and may have trouble in the winter around 32 degrees. Is your barrel dirty after shooting? I'd like to get up around 5000psi- too bad there's no data for smokeless in brass shells. Paul
|
Harry Collins
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 08:55 pm |
|
In the October 1964 issue of The American Rifleman was an article on Loading Brass Shotgun Shells. Unfortunately the powders listed are Du Pont Bulk Smokeless, Super-M Ballistite, Hi-Skor and Alcan AL-101. With brass that uses large pistol primers they recommend Red Dot, but no specific data!
Harry
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 09:01 pm |
|
| Sorry Paul, but no recommendations from me. PB burns extremely clean when the pressure is up to a good level. Debris would indicate too low a pressure. I don't know where PB is on the burning rate scale, but I would go up a step. In the Alliant book, I wouldn't go any slower than Green Dot if I were loading light shot charges in 12 gauge. For composite barrel guns, I don't trust loads that have heavy shot charges and low pressures. I want to see a light shot charge in addition to fairly low pressures. In a ten pound ten bore with real thick barrels, I may go for a fairly heavy shot load, but not in these puny little seven pound twelves that everyone wants to hunt with. If I can't kill it with 7/8 ounce loads, I'll switch to a ten gauge.
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Thu Nov 15th, 2007 11:36 pm |
|
| Bill, all my loads are 7/8oz , and now with the price of shot it's a little less [ adj. charge bar] . This is probably part of the problem. Big case, fiber wads, and a light charge. Is there a list somewhere of powder burn rates ? thanks - Paul
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 12:49 am |
|
| I only use Alliant and I think they have a burn rate chart in their handbook and probably on their website. They have a bunch of "new" powders but the old ones are still available. Red Dot is the reliable powder for 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads, but for composite barrels, I might go to Green Dot to lower the pressure a bit. If the GD loads sounded good, I would stick with them. Unique would be way too slow, so you don't have too many choices to confuse you.
|
paul harm
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 02:21 pm |
|
| Thanks, I'll check them out - Paul
|
David Hamilton
PGCA Member
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 04:30 pm |
|
Bill, Many thanks for the makings of a new and useful acronym. PLSPT, or.
Puny Little Seven Pound Twelves. I like it! David
|
Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 01:53 am |
|
| David, it isn't a derogatory term. I have a "baggo" such Parkers. As a matter of fact, I just returned from a grouse hunt with Kevin M. where I used the ultimate sissy gun, a 6 1/4 pound Sauer ten gauge.
|
Current time is 07:03 pm | Page:   1 2 3 4 5   |
|
