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Destry Hoffard
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| Location: | Michigan USA |
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Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 08:23 pm |
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Harry,
The monetary vicinity of Kent TM with last years prices or this years prices? If it's this years then I'm not a player. I can't afford to spend $3-4 every time I pull the trigger. If I was just an occasional duck shooter that would be one thing but with the amount of cartridges I go through and the amount of money I make......
DestryLast edited on Thu Nov 8th, 2007 08:23 pm by Destry Hoffard
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The member formerly known as Market Hunter
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Harry Collins
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Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 08:51 pm |
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Destry,
I guess it's time to knock the dust off the Mossburg!
Harry
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 10:21 pm |
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I couldn't do it.
The lowest I'd sink would be a 3 inch Browning A5.
I got enough Kent TM and Federal TP to last me a couple seasons before I have to make the sacrifice.
Destry
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Tom Flanigan
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| Joined: | Wed Jan 12th, 2005 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 9th, 2007 01:33 am |
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Dave Miles wrote: I find with the paper hulls, that the hull burns through at the brass, before the shell wears out at the other end. Now, roll crimping plastic hulls, is another story. The main thing I noticed is the plastic hull takes a set from the roll crimp, and makes it very difficult to reload. The wad doesn't want to go in. I usually have to cut or shorten the plastic hull after every reload.
I've had the same experiences as you Dave. I've been using the BP Spin Doctor hull conditioning tool and that generally lets me get three decent loadings before the roll crimped case starts to crack at the mouth. After that, I begin cutting the case down. Some of my cases are real shorties by the time I am done. Fiber filler wads give me the wad column flexibility I need to shorten the cases as much as I do. You can cut those wads to any size you want.
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Harry Collins
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 9th, 2007 02:00 am |
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Destry,
I did the same thing and purchased several flats of Kent TM in 12 and 20 gauge when they were $12.50 a box of 10. I still have some #4 Bismuth for the 10 gauge and ordered some #5 Nice Shot that will let me roll my own 10's after the Bismuth is gone. The cost of loading my own nontox is about $2.20 for one 1 1/4 oz ten gauge.
Harry
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Dave Miles
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Posted: Fri Nov 9th, 2007 10:15 am |
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Tom Flanigan wrote: Dave Miles wrote: I find with the paper hulls, that the hull burns through at the brass, before the shell wears out at the other end. Now, roll crimping plastic hulls, is another story. The main thing I noticed is the plastic hull takes a set from the roll crimp, and makes it very difficult to reload. The wad doesn't want to go in. I usually have to cut or shorten the plastic hull after every reload.
I've had the same experiences as you Dave. I've been using the BP Spin Doctor hull conditioning tool and that generally lets me get three decent loadings before the roll crimped case starts to crack at the mouth. After that, I begin cutting the case down. Some of my cases are real shorties by the time I am done. Fiber filler wads give me the wad column flexibility I need to shorten the cases as much as I do. You can cut those wads to any size you want.
Tom, I'll have to try the Spin DOctor. I do have fiber wads also, but have never tried them with smokless powders. I just love the roll crimped paper hulls.
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Tom Flanigan
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 02:38 am |
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Dave, as far as I'm concerned, roll crimped paper hulls make the world a better place. I've seen your black shell beauties and they are great.
I've been using fiber wads for smokeless loads for many, many years. Back in the years when I first started hunting, Winchester started loading all of their new shells with the Mark V wrapper around the shot. Remington soon hit the market with their power piston wad. Back in the days of my youth, I used to pattern my guns and loads for the fun of it. I soon found out that my grandfather's 20 bore VH was giving me close to modified and full patterns with the shot protected loads from the improved cylinder and modified barrels. Given that I thought that even improved cylinder was too tight a boring for my grouse coverts, I went into a panic. I had my mother drive me all over trying to find a place that still had a supply of old style shells in #9. We finally found them in White Plains at Clarke and Finney. They had a pretty good supply of Peters #9's in the maroon plastic cases without shot cups. Those shells got me through the year but I knew I was in trouble the following year so I bought myself a Lee Loader ($9.95) and ordered a bunch of fiber wads and other components from Herters. The Lee Loader worked ok but it was awful hard to close a plastic crimp using that tool. Many of the shells opened in my pocket and after a day of hunting I always had to empty the loose shot out of my pockets. I graduated to a MEC loader in a couple of years and the days of shells with only half the shot were behind me. I sure do miss those days....
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 12:52 pm |
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| You guys have given a lot of info on roll crimps. Although I love the look of roll crimps I'd like to get a number of reloads from the 10ga hulls seeing how they cost so much. My first 100 are for B.P. loads which I'll only shoot on special occasions. If any of you were going to reload nitro loads, would you go to the star crimp ? From what I've gathered from this thread, the star crimp is easier to reload, and the hulls may last a bit longer. Thanks for any more comments - Paul
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Tom Flanigan
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 03:04 pm |
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| Paul....I roll crimp all of my 10 bore smokeless loads. But if longevity of the cases was a primary concern, I would load with the star crimp. Aside from being more traditional, the roll crimp also results in reduced pressure. However, this type of crimp is very hard on cases and the only way to get a decent number of loadings is to continually shorten the case after the first few loadings.
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 12:17 am |
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| An interesting side note- Ballistic Products just increased their primed Federal 10ga hulls to $21.99/50. RST sells their loaded 10ga shells for $11/25. For the same price I can buy loaded shells and save the empties. Paul
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Harry Collins
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 02:22 am |
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Paul,
I think that is $11.00 for ten shells.
My lead 10 gauge reloads run about $0.26 for an 1 1/8 oz load, $0.30+ for 1 1/4 oz. The cost of non tox you add about $1.90 a shell. With 1 1/8 oz the velocity is about 1130 fps at 4800 fps. The 1 1/4 oz load is 1194 fps at 5800 psi. Both use star crimp.
Harry
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 11:06 pm |
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| Ouch ! paul
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 05:51 pm |
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Harry, No one commented on your remarkable "face" in the morning sky photograph. Is that the result of luck or Photoshop manipulation? Great!
David
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 07:12 pm |
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Sorry Paul, but that $11 price is for 10 shells not 25.
Destry
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Harry Collins
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 12th, 2007 11:16 pm |
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David,
I haven't a clue! I received it as an email and saved it. Just looked like a time to use on this thread.
Harry
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 12:57 am |
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| I'd about guarantee that it is a Photoshop image. The eye geese look too identical to me to be natural and the lower bird is a large eagle I'd say... it sure isn't a goose. Wings are all wrong. Last edited on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 12:58 am by Richard Flanders
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Harry Collins
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 01:19 am |
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Richard,
I couldn't agree more. It was a clever idea and eye catching, don't you think?
Harry
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David Lien
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 02:46 am |
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Paul, Tom and Dave
If you will heat the mouth of the deformed case, with a Wagner heat gun just prior to the introduction of the Spin Doctor you can squeze a few more loads out of the case before triming. Not to much heat as the case melts easy. you may ruin a couple early on, however it is easy to get the hang of it. Some of the Remington cases are really tough and I heat them prior to roll crimping. ( Just warm them up).
I loaded some Federal Paper trap hulls with some very old 540 winchester ball powder, and roll crimps. I got 3 loads out of the cases. With new powder, the cases just burn out after the first load. Dont know why, but in the 1950s you could get 3 loads out of good paper cases. I like the old Lyman roll crimper over the one BP is selling.
I have shot Alcan brass cases for a long time, and I think they are wonderful. The Alcan case use a Shothell primer, and has taper on the inside. The over shot card is the WEAK LINK in brass shotshells. Viberations are next. Like Don kass said cleaning the inside of the case with emory paper is a must, most glue's will then work. If you are in a controlled environment like a shooting range or a Plywood duck blind not much to go wrong. I once put two boxes of Brass shells on the floor of my airboat, and when we got to where we were to hunt I did not have much. All had rattled loose. (Water Glass) Another time water got inside the plastic shell box and softened the Elmers Glue. Had to shoot them single shot. When hunting I always try to carry brass shells with the primer down, and the shot up. I still loosen one up once in a while. Like Winchester and Remington said over 100 yrs ago."you can not wear them out". I like the Alcan Fiber felt wads made for brass cases, no longer made but common on Ebay.
David Lien
Last edited on Tue Nov 13th, 2007 05:33 pm by David Lien
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Nov 13th, 2007 12:47 pm |
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| Dave's "All Brass Wads" may be the solution we are looking for!!! My solution is to hunt birds and preserve mallards with my ten gauge Parkers loaded with lead and shoot my $5.00 a box of 25 steel tens out of my AYA Lightweight at waterfowl. The last non steel no tox tens were Nitro Cartridge Company Bismuth that wholesaled at about $45.00 a box of 25. I thought that price was outrageous, but suffered through it. Now that price looks pretty good but now it is at least twice that, probably much more.
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 14th, 2007 01:49 pm |
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I have 10 boxes of Magtech brass shells and would just love to shoot them but there is so much fouling { with B.P. } in the chamber and on the receiver after 20 or 30 shots I have trouble opening or closing the gun. Is it just my gun having larger chambers ? I thought maybe of making a tool to expand the brass shell a couple of thousands if that was the problem. Maybe take my favorite Parker and measure the chambers the length of a shell down in and make the shell a zero fit. On 25 thought I be a smart guy and use 209 shotgun primers. Makes it easy to load the shells on a Mec 650. Well, the primer sticks up in the case and there's so much fouling it takes a hammer and punch to get em out. Ok, cut em off to 2" and use just smokeless in them. Looks cool but still have to use the hammer. So now I have a Mec 650 with an altered prime and deprimed stations to load large pistol primers in brass shells, took off the starting crimp and installed a dowel to push in wads - all set to load and don't because of the fouling. Grrr- sure would love to shoot those brass shells with smoke. Paul
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