My favorite configuration...16 "O" frames..

[William McClintock]

My Parker DH 16 gauge O frame. The first time I shot sporting clays the gun broke the
initial 13 clays. It was about 80% overall that first day.
https://flic.kr/p/2nH7Phz

[William Woods]

Originally Posted by William McClintock

My Parker DH 16 gauge O frame. The first time I shot sporting clays the gun broke the
initial 13 clays. It was about 80% overall that first day.
https://flic.kr/p/2nH7Phz

William did your 16 come with the round knob? I wonder how many 16's came from the factory with a round knob grip?

[William McClintock]

Originally Posted by William Woods

William did your 16 come with the round knob? I wonder how many 16's came from the factory with a round knob grip?

Yes, it did. That is the original stock. Refinished, but original wood.
I have no idea how many had such a stock.

[C.O.B.]

Next to my 28's the 16 is my favorite regardless of frame size. I've downsized some but the Parkers are
GHE 2 barrel et 28 inch vent ribs. skt/skt & M/F shipped from Alex Kerr's AKA The Hollywood gun
CHE 30 inch PG splinter forearm M/F
GHE 32 inch vent rib
Grade 1 32 inch hammer gun
GHE straight grip 28 inch Damascus
Grade 3 30 inch hammer gun
Others are
LeFever Optimus (upgrade) 28 inch IC/F
Purdey two barrel set
J Venebles & Son back action hammer gun with Jones under lever 30 inch barrels.
CS Rosson straight grip 26 inch IC/M. This was hell on quail last month in Georgia.
Fox Sterlingworth straight grip (restock) 28 inches

I'm sure I have missed something but the memory ain't what it used to be
I've added 4 so maybe thats all of them now

[ArtS]

I'll chime in since I have bought quite a few lately:

Parker 16 g DH 28" Damascus
Sauer 16 ga Hammer
Sauer 16g x 20 g rifle cape gun
Unknown German 16 g Hammer
German 16 g O/u combo gun
German 16 g Drilling
Sterlingworth 16 g (x2)
Ithaca 16 g Flues Gr3
Ithaca 16 g Gr 4
Ithaca Field 16 NID
Manufrance Ideal 16 g (Spectacle action)
Manufrance Simplex 16 g
Manufrance Robust 16 ga
H&H boxlock 16 g

And being shipped:

Verney-Carron 16 g
Browning Citori 16 ga

Truly my favorite gauge over many years. After shooting a well made 16, any 12 feels ungainly due to size unless heavy shooting. The secret is weight and balance. Modern 16's are generally just twelves with small barrels. All my 16's weigh 6-1/4 or less, except the combo guns etc. Many weigh in the 5's. I don't buy them if they are heavy. In truth, many 20's and 28's weigh more. I seldom shoot them with over 7/8oz and have seen no need to. I find the effectiveness of these as good as the 1 oz loads.

Edit
_____

Forgot the late 1800's Darne, the mid century Charlin and a 1904 Manufacture Liege that is a like new 6# hammer gun.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

I'll chime in since I have bought quite a few lately:

Parker 16 g DH 28" Damascus
Sauer 16 ga Hammer
Sauer 16g x 20 g rifle cape gun
Unknown German 16 g Hammer
German 16 g O/u combo gun
German 16 g Drilling
Sterlingworth 16 g (x2)
Ithaca 16 g Flues Gr3
Ithaca 16 g Gr 4
Ithaca Field 16 NID
Manufrance Ideal 16 g (Spectacle action)
Manufrance Simplex 16 g
Manufrance Robust 16 ga
H&H boxlock 16 g

And being shipped:

Verney-Carron 16 g
Browning Citori 16 ga

Truly my favorite gauge over many years. After shooting a well made 16, any 12 feels ungainly due to size unless heavy shooting. The secret is weight and balance. Modern 16's are generally just twelves with small barrels. All my 16's weigh 6-1/4 or less, except the combo guns etc. Many weigh in the 5's. I don't buy them if they are heavy. In truth, many 20's and 28's weigh more. I seldom shoot them with over 7/8oz and have seen no need to. I find the effectiveness of these as good as the 1 oz loads.

So, Art, what is the primary use of this great array of 16s? I find the 16 almost perfect for Bobs and grouse, but like something heavier for waterfowl and pheasants, and something lighter for woodcock, snipe and rail.

[ArtS]

The greatest use is visual pleasure.
Past that, I truly believe they are the perfect upland gun. As I said, I generally won't buy one that is more than a few ounces over 6 pounds. A gun at that weight is easy to carry, and is dynamic to handle because the barrels have to be light to make that weight. I have quite a few 20 doubles and a number of 28's, which is my second favorite gauge and which I have owned a lot more over the years. Most of them in the 5-1/2 pound minus catagory are simply too light and whippy to shoot well. I was raised in Eastern KY where grouse was our primary game and we hunted them relentlessly without dogs. And their populations were very high. Any of these guns will work well on them. Over the years as I moved on to a lot of dove hunting (and shooting clays). I used all different gauges. I kept a lot of scores and records, and realized that once I went below 16 gauge, % started dropping. I often scored my best (especially on doves) with 16's but there was a measureable drop in targets and birds with the smaller bores. This shooting was done with heavier guns and often multiple barrel sets, so the difference was pretty much attributed to gauge.

I still shoot a lot of doves with a 28, largely because my daughters like them and (sounds silly) it is really easy to carry a lot of shells in your pockets. They tend to always be average weight 28's with long barrels. My favorite for preserve quail over dogs is a 5-1/2 # 28 with 30" barrels.

If asked to keep just two shotguns, the would be a mint 16 Sterlingworth that weighs 6 pounds with light barrels opened to Cylinder and IC, and a similar late date Ithaca NID16 with well struck barrels and Mod/Full barrels. I shoot these as well as any two guns I have ever owned, and would have no worries about hunting anything other than waterfowl with them. I live at the non-Mississippi end of the state, so the flyway is not a normal destination, so that's not a huge consideration.

[mobirdhunter]

Thanks, Art. I really enjoy reading the passion in an account like this about guns and hunting -- great "stuff!"

I have hunted the mountains in Eastern Kentucky, public land near Manchester mostly, with some time spent (fruitless, I might add) near Moorehead. I enjoyed my years hunting there, but would have liked more birds (duh, right?). I keep thinking I'll go back. I read about your DNR's plans for grouse with hope. I'm not sure I have the right dogs for those mountains now...or the "right" legs and lungs.

BTW, send all "whippy" 28 gauge guns my way. I shoot so close and so quick, the weight of the gun is of little consequence. My best (a.k.a. the one I killed the most grouse with) gun was an 1930s vintage boxlock John Dickson and Sons 28, choked cylinder/full. I could carry it in one hand while hanging on for dear life with the other in those near vertical coverts in the mountains.

I hope you'll share some photos of your 16s sometime, and I hope I can run into you on our travels east. I love Kentucky -- much like Missouri in many regards, except you have better mountains(!).

Take care,

Garry

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

The greatest use is visual pleasure.
Past that, I truly believe they are the perfect upland gun. As I said, I generally won't buy one that is more than a few ounces over 6 pounds. A gun at that weight is easy to carry, and is dynamic to handle because the barrels have to be light to make that weight. I have quite a few 20 doubles and a number of 28's, which is my second favorite gauge and which I have owned a lot more over the years. Most of them in the 5-1/2 pound minus catagory are simply too light and whippy to shoot well. I was raised in Eastern KY where grouse was our primary game and we hunted them relentlessly without dogs. And their populations were very high. Any of these guns will work well on them. Over the years as I moved on to a lot of dove hunting (and shooting clays). I used all different gauges. I kept a lot of scores and records, and realized that once I went below 16 gauge, % started dropping. I often scored my best (especially on doves) with 16's but there was a measureable drop in targets and birds with the smaller bores. This shooting was done with heavier guns and often multiple barrel sets, so the difference was pretty much attributed to gauge.

I still shoot a lot of doves with a 28, largely because my daughters like them and (sounds silly) it is really easy to carry a lot of shells in your pockets. They tend to always be average weight 28's with long barrels. My favorite for preserve quail over dogs is a 5-1/2 # 28 with 30" barrels.

If asked to keep just two shotguns, the would be a mint 16 Sterlingworth that weighs 6 pounds with light barrels opened to Cylinder and IC, and a similar late date Ithaca NID16 with well struck barrels and Mod/Full barrels. I shoot these as well as any two guns I have ever owned, and would have no worries about hunting anything other than waterfowl with them. I live at the non-Mississippi end of the state, so the flyway is not a normal destination, so that's not a huge consideration.

[ArtS]

I don't have much hope for the birds in Eastern KY any more. Between strip mining (and reclaiming as flat fescue meadows, all before the mountaintop mining issue and rules) and farming practices there now, the quail and grouse don't have much of a chance. The DFW puts all its efforts into stocking the public areas but there isn't much benefit there. They do a good job with turkey and elk, with turkeys going from not here to being almost a nuisance as the deer have become. The elk program to re-establish (they were the primary prey for both Indians and settlers in the days when we had prairie grasslands, but disappeared. They are doing so well that the several hundred permits each go mostly to the thousands of applications from out of state.

When I was a kid, the grouse were everywhere. We would go up the hill behind our house on the edge of town, make a loop around a couple of small watersheds where the farmer's didn't care, and get grouse, quail, squirrel and rabbits (often 2 or 3 species on the same day). We lived in an outdoor paradise and didn't realize it. Peeople didn't even glance at someone in a canvas jacket and brush pants walking through the middle of town with a shotgun.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

I don't have much hope for the birds in Eastern KY any more. Between strip mining (and reclaiming as flat fescue meadows, all before the mountaintop mining issue and rules) and farming practices there now, the quail and grouse don't have much of a chance. The DFW puts all its efforts into stocking the public areas but there isn't much benefit there. They do a good job with turkey and elk, with turkeys going from not here to being almost a nuisance as the deer have become. The elk program to re-establish (they were the primary prey for both Indians and settlers in the days when we had prairie grasslands, but disappeared. They are doing so well that the several hundred permits each go mostly to the thousands of applications from out of state.

When I was a kid, the grouse were everywhere. We would go up the hill behind our house on the edge of town, make a loop around a couple of small watersheds where the farmer's didn't care, and get grouse, quail, squirrel and rabbits (often 2 or 3 species on the same day). We lived in an outdoor paradise and didn't realize it. Peeople didn't even glance at someone in a canvas jacket and brush pants walking through the middle of town with a shotgun.

Gosh, for those days (as you describe) again! I did run into elk on my grouse hunts, the first time I "flushed" one was quite the surprise. I hunted older clear cuts (could fine no recent ones) and some grapevine ravines, but even in the short time I hunted Kentucky, those coverts all grew past even the older acceptable (to grouse, that is) age structure. So, I guess you've not checked out any of the newer habitat projects. I was thinking I might, but...