Steel Shot in Parkers

[Bruce Day]

Hello Calvin. I've seen them do that. They do in fact use a scraper and take off the top 2-3 " , then run everything through a series of screen shaker tables. An active gun club can have maybe $100,000 or more of recovered lead and make a share of $50,000.

[Dean Romig]

Frankly, after just reading Tom's article and once again reading through a lot of stuff we've read before or surmised to be true, the only tangible thing I found was in his last paragraph...
"The difinitive answer must come from the gun or choke-tube manufacturer...

...and if the manufacturer doesn't exist any more, good luck."

[Autumn Daze]

I read Rosters article yesterday. It was good information but in the back of my head I kept hearing "good info for the over/under and autoloader guy's". I really think Tom was relating this info for modern guns and he qualifies this with his last paragraph that Dean mentions. Also Mr. Roster makes it very obvious that he is very proud of the steel shotcup wads that"he designed".

As we all know sporting writers of years gone by and also current ones are "Infuenced" by the sporting industry. I'm by no means saying bad info would be put out there by these people but let's face it"it's all about money".

[Bruce Day]

The gun community is rather small and all these guys know each other . I'm sure the gun manufacturers would rather that we all buy their latest carbon fiber space age wonder gun and not even try to shoot the vintage guns. Our issue is how to deal with using the old guns in a modern environment and where we have no lead shooting ranges becoming more prevalent. A buddy in Mass called me yesterday and was talking about many of the trap and sporting clay ranges there were going to no lead. 100 rounds of costly bismuth on a weekly basis if you want to shoot an old Parker isn't a very good alternative, at least for me. At $2 per shot, shells alone are $200, so then a round of clays costs $230. If there is a way we can shoot cheaper steel through an old Parker then I think we ought to investigate and figure out how it can be done it instead of dismissing it out of hand, I know I personally will look into it Our local ranges are all OK for lead but I like to travel and some of the places I like to go are no lead. I personally do not own a single modern gun, my newest one is a 1968 Superposed 20.

Maybe Roster should be proud of the steel shotcup. Why not? Early steel shotshells had a barrel bore erosion problem and the latest generation shotcups designed by Roster for Rem and others are supposed to have solved that problem. I have an old chopped Browning auto barrel , known for being soft, and another couple PGCA readers and I were talking about some sort of verification test.....shoot a thousand rounds of steel shot through it and see what happens. The trouble is all I have is a bore gauge, I have no means to measure shinyness before and after, and I don't really want to spend the money on a thousand rounds of steel. I don't know what testing protocol would be acceptable to people. The manufacturers don't want to look into it, they just want to sell you a new gun.

[Opening Day]

Bruce again, I say what you do is fine, what I do is fine, But to come on a public forum and state it's ok to shoot "Steel Shot" when you have newbe's out there reading that's it's ok and they go to Wally World or find some cheap steel shot at a gunshow that's not ok...! Please state what can happen, and yes I have seen that (may not happen but... like shooting a gun with 15 thousandth's probably safe but......) and also look at the PGCA and what harm you may cause us... Just a thought.

[Bruce Day]

OK Eric, I respect your opinions and you know your guns.

In the broad sense, anybody should be thinking about what they shoot. Know the chamber pressures your gun was designed for, know your barrels, know the chokes and shot size that is appropriate for them, know the shot cups and shot hardness relation. I would not go so far that some do and say to never shoot steel in a vintage gun. I kind of like learning about this and I realize that for some, they have no interest or its too complicated for them.

And you do have a point. I should not suggest shooting any kind of controversial load unless a person thinks about it and deals with the issues, which are more complicated than a quick answer.

Best you,
Bruce

[Bindlestiff]

Bruce, you keep taking shots at FAQ's because we don't address steel shot or other issues that you find dear to your heart. I don't know what an FAQ on this topic will do for you? We have pages upon pages on this forum discussing the topic and a simple FAQ isn't going to resolve anything any better that here; and in my opinion, NOTHING has been resolved here. What would you have me add to the FAQ's?

I went to the Winchester site to see what they had to say and their advice is:

"Winchester steel loads can be fired in shotguns of modern manufacture. It is recommended that steel be fired only in shotguns with no more restriction than an improved modified choke."

So, even they are soft on the issue.... "modern manufacture", whatever that decodes to in a court of law? My opinion is that Parker shotguns are not modern manufacture except in the eyes of the ATF.

I have added all the FAQ's found on this site and have been careful not to post one that could get someone hurt. This topic falls into that realm and "I" will not be posting a FAQ on the use of steel shot in a Parker unless it states something along the line of "never shoot steel shot in a Parker".

If anyone sees an FAQ that is wrong, let me know and I will fix it; if anyone sees a FAQ that could cause someone, anyone, to be harmed, let me know and it is gone, deleted, removed,...; if you think these standards for FAQ's are wrong, let me know and I will have my access to FAQ's removed and someone else can do it. I will always error on the side of safety.

I agree with Eric that to post opinions to a public forum where the uninformed reader takes an opinion as fact can be a big mistake. And the FAQ page may have more authority to the novice than this thread, so care must be taken when adding one to insure it can't lead to an accident of any kind.

[Old and Reliable]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

As Chris knows, I am inclined to hit the print button when things get hot on the PGCA forum. I just compared my printed copy of the Peter Johnson thread to the computer version. In John's defense, I don't find any difference. If there was such an unacceptable post, Bruce probably edited or deleted it within the time period allowed. I am still apalled, as is Chris and Destry, that any of our members would send emails to Bruce comparing him to a pig or whatever. Bruce's work with Boy Scouts and the "March" is to be commended.

-- I always make extra slack for any Veteran who put his life on the line for Our Country- while we were on LRRP's in 1 Corp-- Col. Day and his USAF brothers were covering our &^^%$ with the "Shock and Awe" that helped keep "Charlie" subdued-- I always thought we PGCA brothers followed the "Guy Code" but Boy Howdy, was I wrong, at least in regard to this "Hot Button Issue"--

I am way longer in the teeth than others who have responded to Bruce;s remarks re: The Roster Research--I have shot steel loads since they were required in my Dad's old field grade M12- a 12 gauge 30" full he bought new in 1937 and gave me in 1980-- The barrel and choke are just like they were when that gun was shipped from New Haven-- I have also used my 2E Smith rebarreled with 32" Nitro steel Ventilated rib in 1927 at Fulton- Full in both tubes- but I used Cabelas' classic non-tox loads ONLY in it for waterfowl- it has 3" chambers, but is not a true Elsie "Longrange" but I only shoot 2 & 3/4" shells in it- For the rest of my waterfowling, I use the Mossberg 835 Utility-Mag 12 gauge I won at a DU Sponsor evenmt 6 years ago- I have shoot just about every steel load in 2 & 3/4" and 3" through that "working gun"--=love the top tang safety, and no gas ports to foul (fowl) up-- I hunt probably 75 days in MI- we have the early Bonus Goose season, the regular 60 day season, and the 30 day late winter season- I live on a major river area loaded with Geese and mallards, and if it doesn't freeze, they are here all winter long- fly out to feed on area fields- I haven't hunted in Canada in years- used to hunt Walpole Island a great deal back in the 1970's, also Harsen's Island-

[Drew Hause]

We didn't make any definitive statement on the LCSCA FAQ
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/steelshot.html

Should I shoot steel shot in my L.C. Smith shotgun?

Steel shotshells have come a long way since they were first introduced in the 1980s. Now, they have thick plastic shot cups to help protect the bores. There continues to be concern about scoring (erosion) of the softer barrel steel from the hard shot, and this also applies to Remington's Hevi-Shot. Steel shot does not compress like lead, and can bulge tight chokes. Steel shells are also routinely loaded to 1400 fps producing increased pressure and recoil.



Pulleeeze don't start on the "increased pressure" part - we're trying to keep things simple for us small brained Smith fellas

[Bruce Day]

Francis, yes I also shoot steel in the old Mod 1912 and have noticed NO barrel streaking . But I am not a fervent duck hunter and only go out a few times a season . I let out the full choke to mod when steel came in.

Robin, the FAQ s are yours, have at them , and I deleted the post. Not my business at all and I will say no more about them. Frankly, this whole thread should be deleted and I would if I could. John, can you delete this whole damn thing. This whole thing is just a mess and there are too many opinions to discuss it.

This thing was rotating and trying to drop all the way down yesterday, and I got by it. So let us let the whole damn thread blow over like this one did.