Cowboy BP 8 & 10 loads

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Frank Cronin

If all things being equal loading up 4 drams of BP, 1 1/4 oz of shot in a 10 gauge shell, does anyone know how much increase in pressure using Swiss powder compared to Goex?

I use Goex FFg for 10 and 12 gauges. Heard good things about Swiss but the lack of data information of how much change of pressure keeps me from loading them in my old guns.

I have a Ferguson breech loading flintlock rifle that I have experimented with Swiss powder. At 100 yards switching from 3F Goex to 3F Swiss will raise the point of impact of the ball by 9 inches. I need to borrow a chronograph to find out what the actual change in velocity is, but just going by trajectory, it is significant. The Ferguson has a small powder chamber (about 60 grains) so pressure concerns are not really a factor in this rifle. I am somewhat hesitant to throw 4 1/2 drams into my 10 ga. without knowing what the exact difference in PSI is.

I have been told several times that sporting powders in the late 19th century were "hotter" than the standard Goex we have today. Swiss powder is supposedly closer to the old Curtis and Harvey sporting powders, but without knowing for sure about pressures I am somewhat hesitant to try it. The Goex performs so well in my gun I don't know if it's worth the trouble (and expense) to play around with Swiss in this specific application. Does anyone know of someone who will pressure test 10 ga. 2 7/8" brass hulled, blackpowder loads using 9 ga wads?

[Dutch Dalton]

Thanks all for the reviews,

Had a 4 paragraph response, stopped for coffee and poof, Forum dropped me.

Anyway, Milton, the 8 was a bit more than the $110 in '83. More like, near 5 times the cost of the 10. I've tried to forewarn the heirs. What's a 'milk gun'?

Forrest, your 4 1/2 drams beats my mentor by a whole dram (his are running 1200 FPS) Add Swiss, oh my! Tried Swiss in my 32/20 pistols and I noticed the difference over Goex (a mere 16 grs. by vol.) Greater style points are had by SASS shooters using brass (don't step on the brass as you traverse the stage!).

I'll soon keep the Parkers for something more of their heritage, say trap (no I don't throw them down on the deck in the middle of a timed SASS stage!) Thanks for the thoughts about patterns. Will be important as I invest more in BP trap at our SASS nationals in Phoenix.

Thanks all for the names of those who came before me. More to study, always more to learn.
Best,
Dutch

[StubTwist]

Originally Posted by Forrest Grilley

I have a Ferguson breech loading flintlock rifle that I have experimented with Swiss powder. At 100 yards switching from 3F Goex to 3F Swiss will raise the point of impact of the ball by 9 inches. I need to borrow a chronograph to find out what the actual change in velocity is, but just going by trajectory, it is significant.

9" change in point of impact is pretty significant I'd say too! I'd be curious how much increase in velocity you are getting with Swiss compared to Goex.

I did some searching to no avail regarding pressures but I did find this. To give credit where credit is due, I found it here http://blackpowderblog.blogspot.com/

One thing to bear in mind is that most folks believe that current-day blackpowder, Goex in particular, is significantly weaker than mass-produced blackpowder of the 18th and 19th centuries. this article notes 1250 fps as the velocity of a minie ball fired from a Civil War musket imported from England. If you were to use an equivalent charge of Goex 2F to propel the minie ball, velocity would likely be <1000 fps. The difference in powder strength is attributed to the charcoal used in the manufacture of the powder. Even today, no one disputes that Swiss powder, which is constructed of a different charcoal from Goex, produces higher velocities (and more recoil) on a weight-to-weight basis than Goex. So ... it would seem that there is some basis for the argument that blackpowder was originally stronger than what we have today. but I digress ....

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Frank Cronin

9" change in point of impact is pretty significant I'd say too! I'd be curious how much increase in velocity you are getting with Swiss compared to Goex.

I did some searching to no avail regarding pressures but I did find this. To give credit where credit is due, I found it here http://blackpowderblog.blogspot.com/

One thing to bear in mind is that most folks believe that current-day blackpowder, Goex in particular, is significantly weaker than mass-produced blackpowder of the 18th and 19th centuries. this article notes 1250 fps as the velocity of a minie ball fired from a Civil War musket imported from England. If you were to use an equivalent charge of Goex 2F to propel the minie ball, velocity would likely be <1000 fps. The difference in powder strength is attributed to the charcoal used in the manufacture of the powder. Even today, no one disputes that Swiss powder, which is constructed of a different charcoal from Goex, produces higher velocities (and more recoil) on a weight-to-weight basis than Goex. So ... it would seem that there is some basis for the argument that blackpowder was originally stronger than what we have today. but I digress ....

Outstanding find, thank you! That goes right along with what I have been led to believe as well. After learning about the properties of the antique sporting powders, I am much less apprehensive of using the so called "fast" burning 3F Goex. I need to do more experimenting/learning before I take the leap to heavy loads of 3F Swiss, but the results may put my modern 3" duck loads to shame. Which the Goex loads I am already experimenting with are pretty close to doing as it is. My old fashioned blackpowder and card wad 10 ga loads already pattern tighter and more uniformly than any of the bismuth loads I have been able to load up in my Ruger Red Label.