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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 02:07 pm |
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| This gun, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123772639 has a lot of interest over at the Gunbroker site, but the V checkering pattern on the forend caught my eye. Then the right cheek panel seemed to have a different grain than the rest of the wrist, meaning perhaps an overlay to hide repairs? Then the grip checkering borders and the diamonds themselves started to look not quite right. Finally, the buttplate appears correct for a 1 frame, but just too new to be right, if you know what I mean. Am I seeing things in my old age, or am I missing other clues that I should be seeing? Always fun to sleuth.
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Dave Suponski
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 1027 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:20 pm |
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Mike,Notice that the seller shows no photos of the forend iron and I really am not crazy about the wood fit to the frame. JMHO...
And ya Dean,I,m at work....
____________________
Dave....
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:25 pm |
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I'd say it's being oversold. The bottom of the receiver is pitted from old rust. The entire receiver has been sanded, screws and all. The screws are mildly buggered, but not bad. The rear upper tang screws that comes in from under the trigger guard is 180deg off in time but just be loose. The ivory bead is way too white and likely not original if even real ivory. Wood is certainly nice and very similar to what I have on a GHE I got from our own Dave Miles, but the nose of the comb does not look right to me; way too high I think. Sk/Sk chokes may not be original. It's been dropped onto the dolls head, making a nice dent in the right side. 28.5" bbls and uncut? Looks like no blank in the rib matting in front of the bead. Not impossible; my GHE is 26" with no blank, has keels in place and letters as correct. Seems we now know that Parker would shorten the bbls on a gun that had been sitting in inventory for a while to make it as someone requested. Not sure how common 28.5" bbls are, but I'd say the bbls have been cut by someone. Decent gun, but not quite what the seller would like us to think.
Last edited on Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:32 pm by Richard Flanders
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Jack Cronkhite
Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:47 pm |
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Question:
Is the white engraving on the rib normal, an effect from light, wiped with chalk or something??
Richard: When you say "oversold", do you mean the description only or the bid level already??
Can the tang screw possibly be overtorqued by 180 degrees or is that not reasonably possible?
Any educated guesses on what this will go for??
Cheers,
Jack
____________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
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David Purnell
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 29th, 2005 |
| Location: | Albany, Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 470 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 05:35 pm |
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It looks like a $600.00 GH with sloppy re-cut checking.
Dave
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Jack Cronkhite
Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 05:48 pm |
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So, the seller will have a happy ending. I wonder how much happier  Jack
____________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 10:23 pm |
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Jack, I think it is white chalk.
Richard, I agree about the nose of the comb. I suspect a complete buttstock replacement, or some rasp work prior to the sloppy recheckering on the grip.
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Albert Zinn
BBS Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 10:43 pm |
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Richard:
Did you notice what looks to be a bead of filler around the forend eschutcheon? Also, the barrel/water table fit is poor, not to mention the sloppy wood fit around the top tang.
It may be a decent shooter, but hardly "world class". There are a lot of nicer "G" grades out there.
I'd run from this one.
Regards,
Al Zinn
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Albert E. Zinn
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 05:26 am |
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Jack: By oversold I meant that the seller has a warped opinion of it's value and condition.
Albert: I did notice the forend filler. I wouldn't bid anything on this gun..... there's too many nice ones out there....
I hadn't looked closely at the wrist checkering; it looks like it was done by a 10 yr old.
Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 04:29 pm by Richard Flanders
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Jack Cronkhite
Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 04:03 pm |
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Jack Cronkhite wrote: So, the seller will have a happy ending. I wonder how much happier Jack
10 hours to go and the happiness has now doubled to 1200+ I asked if wood had been repaired and if butt plate original. Seller said he gave all the info he has.
Watching this one just for fun to see the final outcome. Cheers, Jack
____________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
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Bill Bolyard
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 04:09 pm |
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Attica Mi. is not that big, Paul Harm is from that area I am sure he knows about this gun. He runs most of the side x side shoots around there in Lapeer.
Bill
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Don Kaas
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Palm,PA |
| Posts: | 2720 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 05:33 pm |
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| I am sure you all notices the toe of the stock appears to have been repaired as well...
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Jack Cronkhite
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 12:31 pm |
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Jack Cronkhite wrote: Jack Cronkhite wrote: So, the seller will have a happy ending. I wonder how much happier Jack
10 hours to go and the happiness has now doubled to 1200+ I asked if wood had been repaired and if butt plate original. Seller said he gave all the info he has.
Watching this one just for fun to see the final outcome. Cheers, Jack
AUCTION ENDED SOLD $2,750.00
Is this seen as an anomaly or a new reality?? Thoughts??
____________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
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Mike Poindexter
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 01:43 pm |
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| Amazing. One more thing I noticed was the unstruck weight stamp of 4-6. Surely that must mean the barrels were 32" to begin with. 28.5 with "SK" chokes currently would jibe with a 3 1/2 inch reduction. Also, the bid history shows a first time bidder ran the tab up from $1000 to $2700 but did not buy the gun. Wonder if it was a schill? Caveat Emptor!
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Dave Miles
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1730 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 02:38 pm |
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| Worst part of the whole deal, "sold as is, no refund" someone is going to get an education.
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Tom Bria
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 526 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:49 pm |
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| It is an anomaly. I looked at the buyer's feedback and transaction history on GB. He has 30 (count 'em, 30) feedbacks since early November of last year. Some of the item numbers have been deleted from the GB system, but most of his transactions look like purchases, and the majority of those are relatively odd, old .22 rifles and single shots, with a significant number of transactions coming from a single seller. None of the posted transaction prices come anywhere near the hammer price on this Parker. His history makes him look like a dealer, and the items listed make him look like he's not a shotgun guy. It just seems a bit unusual, given what I see of his history.
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 07:39 pm |
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$2750?! How is that possible? I wouldn't pay even 1/3 of that for it. Unbelievable.
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Jack Cronkhite
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 08:16 pm |
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Mike Poindexter wrote: Amazing. One more thing I noticed was the unstruck weight stamp of 4-6. Surely that must mean the barrels were 32" to begin with. 28.5 with "SK" chokes currently would jibe with a 3 1/2 inch reduction. Also, the bid history shows a first time bidder ran the tab up from $1000 to $2700 but did not buy the gun. Wonder if it was a schill? Caveat Emptor!
Interesting factor here.
If 32" = 70 oz then 1" = 2.875 oz
Thinking out loud: but of course 1:1 doesn't quite work as the chambers/cones are included so as the barrels shorten there needs to be a "chamber/cone" factor to come within reason as to what the correct weight should be for any given length. We do know, when records are available, what the correct length should be. The weight stamp is reasonable proof of original weight, unless a mis-stamp occured (probably not likely, so let's accept it is always correct).
So what is the weigt of chambers/cones versus barrel tubes???
With that, can we determine what an original length should be from the weight stamp?
I'm thinking that is possible. Has that already been determined by you gents?
Armed with that tid bit, one chould handily determine from a given length and a weight stamp that a barrel set has or has not been cut
Is there such a formula???
The weight/length ratio for each gauge might be helpful when cruising through internet sales sites.
Thoughts??
Cheers,
Jack
Last edited on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 01:55 am by Jack Cronkhite
____________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 12:05 am |
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| Where do I start ? The man selling it doesn't have a computer so he had someone else sell it for him. The fellow listing it has a way with words. He doesn't lie, but he kind of makes you want to buy it back when you read his discription of it. That said, it got much more than either of them ever thought it would. It was a nice basic gun and no one on this end is complaining that others bid it up so much. If any of you want to sell a gun I can tell you who will list it . Paul
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paul harm
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 12:17 am |
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| To answer a couple of questions - the screws were all tight and not 180 degrees out, the ivory bead is not original, nothing was added to the wood or pieces replaced, the nose of the comb wasn't changed [ by him] , the matting on the rib is correct, and the butt plate is the one that came with it. He did steel wool the reciever because there was surface rust on it when he got it. He sold it because it didn't fit him and he's looking for a Parker hammer gun. Paul
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