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RICHARD L ANDERSON
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Posted: Sun Jul 17th, 2005 10:23 pm |
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| Eric its there I looked at it this am. The engraving around the bbls doesn't look like Parker and the checkering on the forarm isn't anything like your A grade. To me it looked like a std DH pattern.
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Jay Gardner
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Posted: Mon Jul 18th, 2005 12:44 am |
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An A-grade Parker is way above any Parker I could dream of owning and I have never studied any let alone seen one, but I would not think the barrels of an A-grade would be maked like this: "Marked on top of the 26” barrels: ‘Acme Steel’; excellent+ bores, choked improved cylinder & improved cylinder" unless the barrels were replacements. Also, how common was it for Parker to engrave "a large Elk stag" on a high $$ bird gun?
It looks like there is a small space between the end of the engraving on the rib and the end of the rib so maybe they were not cut.
____________________
Weathered corn, an apple left unnoticed on the tree, the crunch of frosted stubble underfoot, wood smoke in the evening - these things remind me of the wild, fall days of boyhood...the best of those days were the Saturday's, afield with my dad.
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Eric Eis
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Posted: Mon Jul 18th, 2005 12:52 am |
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| Chip I finally found the gun and the question I have is when I look at one of the last pictures showing the front of the barrel and the bead sight. Most (not all) parkers have a space between the matting and the end of the barrel which this one has but if you look at the barrel matting it goes lenghwise (which it should) and then it goes accross the barrels which I have never scene before. I think we need Bill to come in here and let us know if he has. Without his imput I would say the barrels are cut and someone tried to cover up the job by matting the barrels going the other way and leaving the gap at the end like most Parkers have. I know Leroy and he is a very good dealer but he knows Winchesters big time not Parkers and he will tell you that himself.
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Mon Jul 18th, 2005 02:45 am |
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My $.02 worth is that the bead is a replacement at least. The huge majority of front beads on Parkers of that vintage and with that amount of wear would have a flat topped or mushroom-shaped bead.
Secondly, I agree with the fact that the roll-matting appears to have been "messed" with.
Thirdly, the barrel keels do not appear to be original. One of them looks round and the other one doesn't look right either.
I would like to read other opinions as to the checkering on the forend. It is definitely D grade checkering but the question remains... what grades (of that vintage) higher than D-grade, also received that particular checkering pattern?
Is That a dent in the left barrel about 6 inches forward of the breach?
Elk were not an uncommon engraving subject on B and higher grades.
Last edited on Mon Jul 18th, 2005 05:31 pm by Dean Romig
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Tom Bria
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Posted: Mon Jul 18th, 2005 05:37 am |
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| The keels look WRONG! Have the seller measure the length of the chokes to help determine if the barrels have been cut. Parker chokes generally start pretty deep into the bore (4"?), so if these chokes start about 2" in, you can bet the barrels have been cut. Looks like a nice gun, but not at that price.
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James Williams
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Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2005 03:28 pm |
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| In addition to the bead and rib-matting and keel issues already mentioned, the other thing that caught my eye is the width of the un-checkered border around the forend latch. It is much wider than any I've ever seen before. I don't know exactly what that means, but I'd at least consider the possibility of the forend being a replacement or either the checkering completely re-done. Also, it may just be the photo angles, but it looks to me like the front sight bead may not be centered on the rib. None of these things make this a bad gun - it is really nice, but I wonder if it is up to the level of the asking price.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Aug 17th, 2006 10:57 pm |
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| Bringing this thread to the top for an interested member.
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Mark Kircher
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Posted: Thu Aug 17th, 2006 11:21 pm |
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Thanks for posting that discussion. When I sent the photos to Jason @ Turnbull he (like I) pointed right at the barrels bringing up all points described in the posts. The issue is certainly relevant on any gun, and of course the gun is not in the Serialization book to confirm origonal barrel length.
Because of that I had them measure the bores and they came back .655 on the right and .649 on the left. Closer to skeet/modified than I/C - I/C. Now I recognize the length of these chokes is still to be determined when it arrives at Turnbull.
I am on the fence. I wanted the gun bad enough (FEVER) to roll the dice and have it shipped. I will pattern it. If it turns out the barrels were cut, I will be disappointed and will have a decision to make. But Frankly- and the few of you who know me know well- I am a scalper by nature. One with ethics (Eric) but a scalper nonetheless. In todays insane climate with these guns -could it be possible that a 16 ga AH with that condition and 26" (perhaps cut) Barrels would not be worth every nickel asked for by Mr. Merz? I recognize 10 years ago it was a $3500 gun. But that was then and this is now.
Given the prices I have witnessed on these High grade guns, to me a small bore Grade 6 for under 15K seems reasonable in this particular market.
Am I sick with Fever?
Mark
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Aug 17th, 2006 11:35 pm |
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| Until you get a PGCA letter on the gun, you don't even know whether the gun was made as a 16 gauge. Question one may be about whether the gun was cut, but I think that is question two. I wonder if "Chip" ever got his letter? Last edited on Thu Aug 17th, 2006 11:36 pm by Bill Murphy
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Mark Kircher
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Posted: Thu Aug 17th, 2006 11:56 pm |
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I guess I had not fully considered the possibility that the potentially cut barrels were themselves non-genuine. Seems possible.......I suppose.
Sure is a pretty gun.
Mark
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gill frye
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 12:34 am |
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If you compare that gun to the AHE that sold on Guns America a few months ago, the 17 gran for that gun was alot better deal. This gun shows right much wear and I think the price is about 3500 too high, but heck send him the money and get your three day inspection and if you don't like it- send it back. I'll bet ya that those barrels came from somewhere else and its not a true 16 ga., very nice gun though.
Gill
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Mark Kircher
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 01:00 am |
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Gill,
I missed that gun gun. Was it a smaller gauge gun?
Mark
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gill frye
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 01:14 am |
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Mark,
It was a 12 ga. with deep engraving, very unusual. I think the guy who bought it got his letter before money changed hands so he knew it was the real deal.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 01:28 am |
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| Would the GA A Grade be the lightly engraved gun out of PA? That would have been the third similar gun to surface in a year. None of the three looked anything like an A Grade, but they all are. Last edited on Fri Aug 18th, 2006 01:29 am by Bill Murphy
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gill frye
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 02:20 am |
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| The AH grade I'm talking about is like the one pictured in the TPS vol. 1 on pg. 318, same kind of engraving style. A very unusual style to me anyway.
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chuck brunner
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 09:34 pm |
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Chip-I dont mean to pee on the parade but the gun in question is gun 69687 NOT 169687 -the leroy merz gun is a real ah----a 12 ga not 16 as stated-it is an early ah 12 that was rebarreled to 16 with a set of parker barrels-I looked at this gun over a year ago and brought this to leroys attention-it looks as if this gun has seen some makeover---caveat emptor!!!
you can call me if you want to talk about it.
540-822-5950 home
chuck brunner
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gill frye
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 11:50 pm |
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| I know this is an AH gun and they don't hardly ever come along but theres not much difference between this gun and that BH grade that Stephen Cobb just sold for 5 gran. Even factoring in the grade difference-just my two cents.
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Mark Kircher
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Posted: Sat Aug 19th, 2006 12:22 pm |
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Chuck - I am the potential purchaser. I will call you to discuss.
Thanks for the post.
Mark
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Mark Kircher
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Posted: Fri Sep 1st, 2006 01:37 pm |
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Just to give the end of the story.
When I approached Leroy with this information (after clarifying it was a good time to have a converstaion about the gun) He suddenly was "up to his eyeballs" with confusion at his store and needed to call me back in 15 minutes.
Needless to say the call never came. My refund check arrived 4 business days later.
Thank you Chuck for your direct information.
Mark Kircher
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 09:02 pm |
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| I hope some of the information on this site over the past months from posters other than the one mentioned (Chuck B.) also qualifies as "direct information", Mark. Several posters, myself included, had hands on information about this gun, and shared it in numerous posts, but I don't know of any of them that received private messages or emails asking for further information. Let's face it, it's the job of the buyer to ask for information on an important purchase, not the job of a bystander to inject his opinion when it is not solicited. Last edited on Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 11:32 pm by Bill Murphy
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