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RICHARD L ANDERSON
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| Joined: | Tue May 31st, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 09:13 pm |
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Bruce I can feel your pain over not being able to shoot . The weatherman called for rain today but it has passed us by with nary a drop.
I shot yesterday and took two 20's to the course a VHE & GHE both skeet guns and got into the 40's . Kurt Densmore made a nice showing using my CHE 20 also. It was its maiden voyage to the SC course and he shot it well. I haven't shot it yet as I can't seem to pull myself away from the straight stocked guns.
My CHE has some unusual engraving for a C grade. It seems somewhat more extensive than other C's and there is a chain like border around the oval with the dogs. the floor plate has the typical Turnip birds.
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Steve Huffman
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 09:17 pm |
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Well I look at it this way ,When some mens wife become to bad to look at they send her off to be restored and when that classic car needs new paint away it goes . So I figure a gun that becomes to far gone what the heck ! 
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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Timothy Sheldon wrote: Bruce, your beautiful little CHE 20 looks to be in the same condition as the GH raffle gun before plastic surgery. Would you ever send in your little queen for that type of treatment?
Tim, I can't comment because I have not seen the gun, before or after. I did have a hand in the barrels and I think the damascus barrels were improved by the light refinishing done by Dale Edmonds, who so kindly donated his services to the PGCA. The fine croille patterns were indistinct before and now they are more distinct, even and a nice smooth and elegant look. I previously mentioned that the raffle gun G grade barrel croille is finer than most G grades I've seen and I believe identical to the croille of the C grade above. I don't think on the C that the barrels need refinishing, but I value Tom's opinons and respect his high quality work.
Its not easy finding a nice and desireable Parker every year as the raffle gun, and the task falls to a few who have access to decent guns at decent prices and are good at finding guns. I know from being on the board in the past that you always have a couple fellows looking and trying to find the best one they can and who urge the seller to sell at a very fair price for the good of the organization. And then you have restoration specialists and gunsmiths who want to help and give of their time to help the PGCA present a fine looking and desireable gun to the membership and the non member public. Now I can't comment because I haven't seen the G 20 of this year, but I urge you to view the gun in that framework.
If a person has a great candidate for next year's raffle gun, I urge you to contact your friendly neighborhood board member with photos, description, etc. Remember, it has to please a lot of people, have broad appeal and be at a very fair price.
Added: I have my new Parker Pages and looked at the redone GH 20. Turnbull did a very true job of re-casecoloring. As for me having it done on my personal guns, I don't know if I have anything that needs it. I have a 1910 DHE 20ga /24" that was much used in the Canadian Maritimes and has no case colors remaining. I figure in another 50-100 years it might need re case coloring.
Last edited on Wed May 28th, 2008 12:12 pm by Bruce Day
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Bob Jurewicz
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| Joined: | Sun Feb 20th, 2005 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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Bruce, I like both guns the original best. The reason is the screws!!!! The restored gun has screw slots that indicate turning. A "Best Quality" Restoration should have resolved that issue. If I could get a picture in here I would show a gun done by DelGreco and it has perfect screws. I don't know how it is done, but, for me that is critical to consideration of a restored gun.
Bob Jurewicz
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Angel Cruz
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:06 pm |
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Bob, I agree with you. If you are doing a restoration the screws have to be taken care of. I`m having a DH done and I had all the screws changed and the bottom ones engraved like the originals. It looks like the job is not finished if the screws are not done right.
Angel...
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Angel Cruz
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:15 pm |
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Russ Jackson wrote: would you care to show us fellows that dont own a C grade small bore
Russ, here is the left side of the frame. I don't mean to imply that the engraving is particularly special on the original C. Many high grade Parkers have outstanding engraving and this is no better them and inferior in some respects. For example, our good member and dealer Jack Puglisi has an outstanding C grade on his website now with Gambel's quail engraved on the floor plate. Some fortunate buyer will step up to that gun.
Its hard to tell on the restored gun because the case color obscures the engraving , but that C also looks pretty nice.
The left side is a pointer, my apologies to Tom Flanigan.
Attached Image (viewed 436 times):
 Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 11:17 pm by Bruce Day
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Ed Blake
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| Location: | Manakin, VA. |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 12:57 am |
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| Both guns have merit and certainly stand on their own, but I like Tom's approach. It seems though that our tastes are becoming more "British" in terms of how we view restorations. There are a number of artisans out there who do justice by these old guns in the way they bring them back to life. Doug Turnbull and Dewey Vicknair are two of them. I would be proud to own either gun. Just use that restored piece and when the greatgrandson is admiring it in a hundred years no one will know the difference.
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Russ Jackson
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| Joined: | Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 02:12 am |
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Bruce; Thank You for taking the time to post the extra picture of the left side of that beautiful gun, I truly think the dogs in the roundrels really set it off, the only problem I can see is my bank account dwindling again, I think I will start shopping immediatly! Do you know if the roundrels are engraved in certain series of years or was it a special order? The highest grade I currently own are D grades, was this treatment only on the higher grade guns, I did own a very nice restored BHE but it did not have the roundrels either! Have you any thoughts on this? Russ
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Tom Flanigan
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| Joined: | Wed Jan 12th, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:03 am |
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Bruce Day wrote: The left side is a pointer, my apologies to Tom Flanigan.
No need to apologize Bruce. The right side of that little gem of a gun has a setter.
The English pointer is actually my second favorite bird dog, although I've owned only one. If not for the setter, English pointers would be my dog of choice. Each of these breeds has a birdiness and a style that I haven't consistently seen in other breeds. The continental breeds do yeoman service and are favored by many but as a general rule, in my opinion, the odds of finding a true grouse dog is better if the breed is an English Pointer or setter. They are not the dog for the weekend type hunter, for sure, but if a man knows how to understand and properly handle a high spirited bird dog and spends a goodly amount of time in an area that holds many grouse, then the English Pointer or setter are the odds on favorite to achieving perfection on this very difficult bird. Those are fighting words to some, I know, but this is my opinion and comes from a man whose all time best grouse dog was a Brittany.
As for the engraving on the little CHE, yes, there are better engraved Parkers and you might own a few yourself, but that gun has character. The wood duck on the trigger plate is exquisit and artfully done as is the rest of the engraving. That gun remains one of my favorite Parkers.
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:33 am |
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| The roundel engraving style is noy particular to grade but comparatively few were engraved in that style. A GH sold on Gunbroker.com about nine months ago with very unusual engraving that included the roundel style. I only wish I had been a little quicker to place my bid.
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Russ Jackson
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| Joined: | Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Pennsylvania USA |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:45 am |
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Dean; I am a regular watcher of Gun Broker, and I some how missed that particular gun, I am with you, if condition was right even if you werent exactly in the market at the time and one came available ,it would make you take a seconed look ! Not sure why that is so eye catching but it does it for me!
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:59 am |
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I have seen that style engraving on guns 1900-1905, but I am not aware that an adequate study has been done. I've not seen earlier or later, and I've looked.
Of course I think the ultimate is a small ga., Bernard, and the roundel engraving. See Larry Frey. He has the only one I know of.
The point of the exercise was to show comparisions between generally comparable guns, one original and one redone .
Last edited on Tue May 27th, 2008 04:21 am by Bruce Day
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:45 am |
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| I've seen and, through Larry's generosity, shot his 12/16 two barrel set Bernard (both sets) CH. It is a wonderful Parker.
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Kurt Densmore
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 28th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brant, Michigan USA |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 11:59 am |
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I have heard of, but until now, not seen the wood duck on the trigger plate C grade....that is truely a very nice engraving. I would have to go with the original gun also.
Thanks again Rich, for letting me shoot two of your 20gauges. What a joy!! The GHE skeet and CHE with B grade checkering performed wonderfully. A buddy even brought out his F grade Lefever with chain damascus bbls.
Kurt
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Brad Hunt
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 01:31 pm |
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| I choose the original all things equal.
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Russ Jackson
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 01:48 pm |
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Bruce; I have really enjoyed this thread, its nice to get all the different opinions, original or restored, and its always a treat to see other members guns, especially the special guns or higher grades that seem to get hidden away for the most part. Once I mentioned the roundels we did get a little off track , I do apologize , although it would be nice to have a study on this engraving style just to see when, and how many, we might actually find a pattern ? Russ
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 02:42 pm |
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| Russ, I know of several, and they are all interesting and an interesting writing subject in themselves. It would make a great PP article.
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Carl Beers
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 02:44 pm |
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I too have found this an interesting thread. It got me thinking as I have a couple C grade Parkers and really didn't recall the engraving. So, I just now took a look at them and find that one has the dogs on the side in a circle with flying pheasants on the floor plate; the other has the dogs in an oval with an elk on the floor plate. The one with the circle engraving according to letter was ordered with both barrels choked cyclinder which suggests it was to be used for quail. It was ordered by a gentlemen in South Carolina in 1903 which further suggests it was to be used as a bird gun. Looks like a guy could make an interesting collection just with C grade guns.
Best to all, Carl Beers
P.S. Bruce, if I have room I'll throw them in the truck and bring them up to Duluth in August.
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Russ Jackson
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 02:52 pm |
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Bruce; I agree, and I am already on task this morning searching for one !! One can only imagine the beautiful specimens that are tucked away in private collections and possibly still hanging on gun racks in the old staircases at Grand Dads farm house! This engraving style really catches my eye and would make a great article in PP. I would think that it would have some interest to most of the body!
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Larry Frey
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:01 pm |
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Carl, It must be nice to have so many Parkers laying around that you forget what they look like.
Bruce, I agree with your 1900-1905 dates. My first Parker was a C grade that I recieved from a relative and it had the more standard engraving pattern. As I recall that serial number was 99??? which would put it right in that 1899-1900 time frame just prior to the roundel patterns showing up.
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