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Brad Hunt
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 03:42 am |
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| I am new to this site and am just curious if it has ever been determined what the serial number of Nash Buckingham's 34" Parker was? Was it a #3 or a #2 Frame? Thanks.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:58 am |
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| I am not sure that the reputed 34" Buckingham Parker pictured in Bird's book may not be the 34" AAH Grade Parker that was the property of Henry A. Bartholomew. It is hard to determine the grade of the gun from the pictures. I don't know how much information is included in Buckingham writings that would give further information on a possible second 34" gun. I will post the serial number (two actually) of the Bartholomew AAH when I dig it out. Maybe someone else will post it in the meantime.
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Don Kaas
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 11:56 am |
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The 34" Parker famously replaced by Bo Whoop was long gone before Nash ever met Henry Bartholomew or Burt Becker. (Bill think of the time line here) The gun is pictured in repose in GB Evan's Best of NB collection as well in action at Wampanoca in Eltinge Warner series of 1921 Field & Stream silent movies. From viewing the gun as closely as possible in these photos, my best guess is it is a DH. Wayne Capooth's book has a photo of NB taken from the film print holding the Parker which is incorrectly identified as Bo Whoop. The recessed hinge pin is clearly visible, however.
At the time he was using the Parker NB was a partner in a sporting goods store in Memphis along with his friends Ensley and Brown and his writing career was just becoming established (with Warner's help). Lacking a corresponding reference in the Parker records for a 34" gun going to NB's store, we can only assume Nash picked it up somewhere along the line as his other stand-bys, the Winchester hybrid 93/97 must have been getting a bit tired along with the standard M1897 gifted to him by Harold Money.
Last edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:10 pm by Don Kaas
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Christopher S. Lien
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:14 pm |
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I have heard that it was a 34" VHE 2-frame no safety gun numbered #163747, but these were only rumors...
CSLLast edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:15 pm by Christopher S. Lien
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Don Kaas
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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| In the photo in GBE's book, the gun has a D style oval stock shield rather than a V style, a Jostam Anti-Flinch pad, the action appears engraved (but it is hard to tell) and the checkering on the splinter forend appears D-like. The top tang is not clearly visible in any photo I have seen thus a safety or lack thereof can not be determined. Last edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 06:46 pm by Don Kaas
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 04:00 pm |
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I think there's a long barreled Parker known in a collection that was at least ordered through the sporting goods store in Memphis but I can't recall where I ever heard this. Anybody?
DLH
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Francis Morin
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Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:57 pm |
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| As a confirmed "Buckingham Fan" in the GBE book about Nash-he details Harold Money and his Win Model 1897- and his career with that smokepole- two questions come to mind here: After Money went to work for A&F in NYC and married a wealthy widow (smart move there Mr. Money) he did shoot for the A&F squad- any one know when the M97 went to Nash- after Money's death-or prior-very little mention of Nash and that gun- one foto in the GBE book shows Nash at a live bird shoot circa 1910 at Rogers Springs Tenn using that M97- Last edited on Mon May 19th, 2008 04:37 pm by Francis Morin
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Dave Noreen
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 12:25 am |
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From what I understand of the timeline, shortly after the event recounted in De Shootinest Gent'man (first published in Recreation in 1916) took place, likely late in 1908, Harold quit the big W, returned to England, then went to Ceylon to try his hand at a rubber plantation. It seems he left his Model 1897 with Nash at this time. Harold then left Ceylon to join up to help King and Country fight the Hun!! Harold Bloomfield Money advanced through the ranks from 2nd Lieutenant, to Lieutenant, to Captain, all with the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. Older brother Noel was a Brigadier on the General Staff.
Don't put too much faith in what you read in GBE about Harold Money. He had the Money family all screwed up. Harold WAS Albert W. Money's (Bluerock's) son. There was no E.C. Money! E.C. was one of the the gunpowders Albert manufactured in Oakland Park, Bergen County, New Jersey. Also, I'm reasonably certain that the description of Harold Money that GBE got from John Olin was actually of Harold's older brother Noel E. Money. There is a much better description of Harold in the 1941 Scribner’s book, De Shootinest Gent'man, where Nash wrote "Harold Money was just under six feet, a graceful, well muscled middleweight with a keen mind, delightful smile, superbly rounded educationally, and one of the most adaptable chaps I’ve ever known. With a gorgeous sense of humor and polished by the contacts of high birth, he could put all hands at ease on any occasion. "He is the only man I’ve ever seen," the late Captain Arthur du Bray used to say, "who could shoot craps on the mud floor of a Diggers Indian hutch and then change for a bow at the Court of St James." They were great pals Captain Arthur du Bray, gallant gentleman and father of the twenty gauge shotgun in the United States."
Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 01:29 pm by Dave Noreen
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Francis Morin
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:30 am |
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| Thank you Dave Noreen- I am a history "buff" for the days of yore I guess-wonder if there was such a whiskey as "Brooklyn Handicap" back around 1916- the supposed setting for the classic Buckingham yarn- "De Shootin'ist Gent'man" and was Horace Miller's wife and "helpmet" named Molly- did I also see a Molly Merritt- a original 5x5 I believe, listed as the cook- was she Horace's wife- or did I misread it. Sort of reminds me of my favorite poem by an English author- Rudyard Kipling- entitled "IF"- the great line- "If you can walk with Kings and consorts, and not lose the common touch" I used to duck hunt with a local legend- Woody shot a 30" full Model 97 Winchester for everything- used to shoot live pigeons on the $ circuits- he also had a ejector grade L.C. Smith (sorry it wasn't a Parker) that was given to him- that he also used for doubles at trap 16 yards-occasionally for live birds- he's the man who once told me "If you can see a man's left hand move as he "shucks" a pumpgun, he's not a pumpgunner-" Hard to argue with dead birds inside the ringed fence and the $ in your pocket- he had it "in spades" as apparently did Harold Money. Great stuff- many thanks... Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 02:46 pm by Francis Morin
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 06:15 pm |
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Kaas and I have both looked high and low for any trace of the actual brand "Brooklyn Handicap" without success. The closest thing I ever found was a bottle they'd made up for the Nash Buckingham display at the DU Headquarters.
I think all the different kinds of booze mentioned in the NB literature were either names he'd made up or nicknames given them by the black folks.
Some of the others I can think of right now are Tree Top Tall, Catawba, Black Cock Gin, and Joe Blackburn. As far as I can figure out, none of these brands ever existed.
DLH
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Don Kaas
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 06:25 pm |
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| The Brooklyn Handicap is a real horse race held since 1887. It is now run at Belmont Park. Nash as a sportswriter would have known this. Perhaps this was his inspiration...the 1904 running below.... Attached Image (viewed 506 times):
 Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 06:28 pm by Don Kaas
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Dave Noreen
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 07:49 pm |
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Francis,
My long time interest has been Ansley Fox who schucked a Model 1897 for the big W prior to Harold's days with them. I finally tried a Model 97 myself, and found it one of the hardest guns to use I've ever tried. Not nearly as forgiving as my Model 12 Winchesters and Model 31 Remingtons! I couldn't wait to find something to trade it off on! I've always figured the fact that when Ansley ran 25 straight pigeons in the 1901 GAH with the 1897 and then missed the first bird in the shoot-off, that drove him to go found two more companies to build side-by-side doubles!
Nash wrote that he first met Harold Money at a trap shoot in Fordyce, Arkansas, in 1905 or 6, and that Harold went 150 straight at that shoot. I've got the bound volumes of The American Field for those years and have not been able to find a report of that shoot. From what one sees in the advertising of those times, I can't believe that if one of their representatives went 150 straight with their products that it wouldn't have been splashed all over Winchester's ads for a few weeks.
Since searching for that shoot report, I have amassed about ten pages of text on Harold, and other then his win of the 1901 Carteret Handicap, a 100 bird race, with an 88 in horendous weather conditions, I've found him well down in the pack. I'm sure he was a very affable representative for Winchester, but he was not a super star shooter like Remington's William Heer or the likes of W.R. Crosby, J.A.R. Elliot, etc.
If you are interested, PM me an email address, and I'll send you what I've found on Harold.
Dave
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Don Kaas
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 08:01 pm |
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Dave- you will recall that the Moneys were prominent members of the Carteret Gun Club. Carteret tried to institute an "amateur rule" that was the cause of much consternation among the membership. How this separation of the gentlemen from the professionals comported with young Harold's brief riding of "the circuit", I do not know. The NYT archives have a number of references to Harold's prowess as a victorious shooter as you know, not the least of which was his win at my own Philadelphia Gun Club in May of 1899 with a 49-1 and his father A. W. second at 47-3. He also won the Amateur National Championship at Live Birds.
One NYT article dated 3/10/03 I missed on my first search of a few months ago was "Harold Money Dangerously Ill" Kansas City, MO March 9-Harold Money of oakland, NJ, traveling representative of an Eastern arms company and a live-bird marksman of National reputation is dangerously ill at St, Joseph's Hospital in this city of pneumonia." (I didn't know KC was The City of Pneumonia" I guess that one got by the copy editor.)
Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 08:25 pm by Don Kaas
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 08:05 pm |
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I'm currently in the process of reading Blue Rock's little tome on pigeon shooting. Perhaps his tips will help me in my proposed pigeon match against Mr. Kimble this winter.
Destry aka Capt. B
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Brad Hunt
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 12:29 am |
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| I tried to research this years ago and the closest I could find was "Brookside's Diluted Blended Whiskey". Not very thirst quenching--eh?. Best of luck.
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Dave Noreen
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 12:45 am |
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Don,
Albert Money apparently wrote a letter to the governing committee complaining about the chief handicapper at Carteret trying to oust him and his family as pros. That brought the chief handicapper, George S. McAlpin, to Money's office at 318 Broadway in New York City, on 28 December 1901. The meeting apparently didn't go well and McAlpin slugged the 61 year old Capt. Money and broke the malar bone on the left side of Money's face.
On January 4, 1901, George S. McAlpin, with his counsel, surrendered himself at the Centre Street Court.
The American Field, January 26, 1901 – “Captain Money, though but partially recovered from the assault inflicted on him while in his private office by George W.(sic) McAlpin a month ago, is progressing as well as the serious nature of his wound will allow. The malar bone on the left side of his face was fractured and causes him considerable pain and inconvenience as it slowly knits.”
Looking back through my notes I find Harold was a pretty up and coming shot in the 1899-1901 time frame in the clubs from New York to Philadelphia. The few places I see the guns mentioned he was shooting a Parker in those days. At the 1901 GAH Harold shooting a Parker Bros. gun went 23, missing his last bird, while A.W. Money got 24. Pretty good only 4 months after the assualt by McAlpin!! At the 1902 GAH, shooting the Winchester Model 1897, Harold missed three out of the first eight and withdrew, while Pop still shooting a Parker got 23.
The November 14, 1903, issue of The American Field carried the following note –
“The many friends of Harold Money, the well-known representative of the Winchester Repeating Arms Co., who was very ill at Kansas City, Mo., last April, when the Grand American Handicap at targets was held in that city, will be rejoiced to learn that he has fully recovered his health and is again shooting a great clip on inanimate targets. He recently shot at 60 and scored them all; then at 75 and scored 74, and then shot at 135 and made one straight run of 111. Mr. Money is at present at Colorado Springs, whither he went as soon as he was able to leave his room at Kansas City and where he has built up his strength. It is more than likely that he will remain in Colorado during the coming winter as the climate there is better for him than on the Atlantic coast.”
Last edited on Wed May 14th, 2008 12:48 am by Dave Noreen
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Francis Morin
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 02:11 pm |
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| Destry- my new"Main man" for crabcakes, fine smokes, Irish sippin' whiskies (ain't a bad one in da lot is there) and hunting "da' webfeets wit foin shotguns"- Here's another brand for research- just for "funsies"-- In the l960's great movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman (Fast Eddie Felson) orders his whiskey "J.T.S. Brown- ever come across it-? Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 02:40 pm by Francis Morin
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Don Kaas
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 02:28 pm |
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It may surprise a man of your erudition but none of this is news to most of us. J.T.S. Brown is and was a real brand of bourbon. To call Gary Cooper Ernest Hemingway's favorite hunting "pardner" in the Sun Valley period is a bit of an overstatement but he certainly was one of them. There were a number of local men who hunted with him quite frequently as well as other more famous types. Cooper's long relationship with EH is also very well known, the actor having starred in the early film adaptation of "Farewell to Arms" (1932) and "For Whom the Bell Tolls (1943). A recent documentary focuses on their long friendship.The Stack, Cooper and Gable Parkers are well known and well documented (see TPS Vol. II). Ladies like Ms. Lombard are still with us but few are as talented comic actresses ( see "Twentieth Century" with John Barrymore and "Nothing Sacred" with Frederic March..).      Attached Image (viewed 396 times):
 Last edited on Wed May 14th, 2008 02:45 pm by Don Kaas
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 02:39 pm |
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| Unlike some posters, (who, in the interest of "peace on the website", will remain unidentified) I don't have to go to google.com to get my literary quotes. Mr. Kaas is well aware that I am not referring to him. The Paul Newman reference to the bourbon in question is "J.T.S. Brown, no ice, no glass". I'm surprised that our literary historian did not find this reference on google. Last edited on Wed May 14th, 2008 02:42 pm by Bill Murphy
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Wed May 14th, 2008 02:45 pm |
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I've heard of that brand but never tried it. I may have to look up a bottle for the next time I decided I can shoot pool. I really can't, same way with a shotgun, but it's awful fun to try. And you can drink while shooting pool without having to worry about shooting any of your duck hunting buddies in the head with a load of #5.
I once got to shoot a game with a real Balabushka que, it was about like I imagine shooting ducks with a Parker AA would be. I shot poorly as usual, but I sure looked good anyway.
Destry
P.S. If you're ever in a bar fight don't do like in the movies and whack somebody with the small end of the que, flip it around and use the big end. A quick downstroke right where the shoulder meets the neck will usually end things pretty quick.
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