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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Mon Jul 4th, 2005 05:18 pm |
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| The first picture (above) on this topic shows an open gun cleaning box. I failed to ask questions about it in the years I was hunting with my dad. Back then it felt more like a prop than a topic of conversation. Today, my curiosity has 4 notions. The box was store bought...............or homemade................or it was handed down by a great grand-relative...............or it was found along a roadside after the Battle of Gettysburg. Is there anyone old enough in this forum to give a satisfactory answer? This isn't "Jeopardy", so I can't say,"Gun Cleaning Boxes for a $100". Attached Image (viewed 479 times):
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Tom McNeff
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Mon Jul 4th, 2005 05:59 pm |
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Austin-Your posting here on June 29 said:
"The checking on the BTFE is reminiscent of early SC's, but has the additional fleur de lis." My Parker 101 questions are............What is BTFE?..........and SC's. I'm posting a picture of the forend to show the pattern you are talking about. Also, I have circled an inlay piece on the forend that feels like extremely hard plastic. It seems to be in other places as well. Butt plate area would be another. I'm guessing there is a black stripe of it on the shoulder end of the non-Parker pictures you posted recently on the Lefever topic. Is it plastic? Attached Image (viewed 357 times):
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Tom McNeff
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Jay Gardner
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 01:30 pm |
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| Now that is a great photo.
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Weathered corn, an apple left unnoticed on the tree, the crunch of frosted stubble underfoot, wood smoke in the evening - these things remind me of the wild, fall days of boyhood...the best of those days were the Saturday's, afield with my dad.
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 05:05 pm |
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Jay - If you should decide to put yourself in a photo such as that one, keep in mind, that in the photo I posted............if you look closely............. the gentleman is wearing a tie. Dad wasn't much for birdcallers and alike. He may have lured his game with a classy outfit. - Tom
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Tom McNeff
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Jay Gardner
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 06:04 pm |
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Tom,
I did notice your father's attire - quite a snappy dresser. Do you know when the picture was taken? Clearly your father was a sportsman who appreciated the sport. I am sure he took his fair share of game. Do you know/remember what he hunted with the Parker?
As for the ebony wedge in the BTFE, I looked at and passed on a 20 ga VHE with a very similar BTFE last fall. The gun had been restocked with killer wood and then the stock had been spliced to bring the LOP to about 15". The seller did not know who did the restoration work. I'll try to find the photos and post them.
Is that the Parker in the photo? It looks like that gun does have a BTFE.
Last edited on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 06:06 pm by Jay Gardner
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Weathered corn, an apple left unnoticed on the tree, the crunch of frosted stubble underfoot, wood smoke in the evening - these things remind me of the wild, fall days of boyhood...the best of those days were the Saturday's, afield with my dad.
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 06:39 pm |
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Jay - I had a request from Austin Hogan for use in an issue. He asked for a few lines about the photo as well. It read:
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Hi Austin
The attached photo is actual size at high resolution. The photo is of my dad, Raymond McNeff, whom everyone knew as Joe. He was in his late 20s when this was taken. His springer sidekick here is Mac. Dad loved to hunt in the farmlands of Putnam County, Ohio for fox squirrel, which is where this photo was probably taken. In the early 60s, we found rabbits and pheasants were plenty at the Buckeye Pipeline oil tank farm in Lima, Ohio. It wasn't too long after this photo was taken that dad became a WW2 POW for almost 2 1/2 years.
Please note in the photo that the gentleman is wearing a tie. The Parker in the photo is the one we have been discussing in the forum.
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Jay - The thing I might add here is that a close friend of my dad's, who managed a camera store for many years in Lima, Ohio, would take his gun along in one hand, and a camera in the other. I have a couple great shots that I believe he took of my dad and Mac when they went duck hunting. I would have to make a guess and say that he went to Michigan for that hunt.
Adding to the "farmlands of Putnam County, Ohio".............Permission to the properties was usually a tough nut to crack. The farmers had the animals graze or beat down the brush. Their woods were always cleared and beautifully perfect for squirrel hunting. These farmers had too many stories of hunters going for the ground and accidently shooting their stock. Dad worked hard to gain their trust..........to the point that he never had to stop at the house for permission anymore. He could just hop the fence. Trust came quicker at times with a "Jack Daniel exchange".
Jay - I look forward to your picture post.
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Tom McNeff
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 09:07 pm |
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| My Dad never hunted birds (in my experience) without wearing a white Arrow shirt and tie. The tie was not always absolutely tight at the neck, but close. His bird coat was what we would take to be a canvas Utica Duxback, unlined coat, that he claimed was bought with his Model 12 as a package from someone who was either deceased or had quit pursuing the grouse of his native Carbon County, PA. I remember a farm hand at a mulch operation a few years ago who offered me access to a full can of gasoline when I ran out on the way to work. I was operating a package store at the time and on arriving at my office, picked up a liter of Black Label and drove back to the farm in question. The fellow just couldn't figure out how I could obtain a bottle of Jack Daniel at 7:00 AM. I should have asked about the quail!
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 09:53 pm |
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| Bill - Your find story brought to mind something that I had forgotten. THE COAT. At my age now, that's not hard to do, because the gray matter between my ears has started to fall to my sitting area. You obviously saw your dad put his coat on as many times as I saw mine. With a show of hands for the number, I have to believe that the both of us would have to stand in a nuclear blast to mutate in order to have enough limbs to provide an accurate count. Now, at any time, did you ever see THE COAT go to the cleaners? I sure don't recollect.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 10:24 pm |
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| Dad claimed the 1925 gun and the coat came as a package. In 1974, Dad passed away. The coat, as you suggest, had never been cleaned. At the time, I thought that was quite a feat. However, I have a pair of plain front Duxback bird pants that I have had since before I left home in 1967 for a two year break in my bird hunting. I will be wearing them when they are 49 years old, I am sure. I have worn out more than a pair of reinforced front bird pants, but these "Sunday go to meeting" plain front Duxbacks show no sign of wearing out or needing a cleaning. By the way, when Dad reached retirement age, he occasionally would shoot a pair of Gettysburg ringnecks without benefit of neckwear. Last edited on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 10:24 pm by Bill Murphy
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 10:39 pm |
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| Bill - Your father left you with a very classy package. I wish I would have been left with some of the apparel in his photo. Mom complained about his coat on occasion......as though it could stand on its own. I think he may have eventually put in down like a fine animal.......or may have sent it to Nakita Kruschev with game in the pockets because he disliked the man so much.
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 10:45 pm |
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| Bill- What was the 1925 gun?
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 11:13 pm |
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| It was the Model 12 I mentioned in the previous post. Dad always claimed that he had owned the gun since he was a teenager, but the date of manufacture was when Dad was 21 or 22. Sometimes I wonder whether I place too much importance on these guns and their history, but, then I realize that you can't place too much importance on these guns and their history. Now, would you like to hear some more history on my bird pants?
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Tue Jul 5th, 2005 11:18 pm |
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| Bill - Continue on.......I smell a book here..........but at some point, I think you are going to have to post a picture of them.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 12:28 am |
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| I've got plenty of pictures, but not nearly enough of my Granddad and his pigeon ring in Hazleton Heights. However, I must admit that Dad's hunting coat is gone, although lots of guns and dog whistles are still floating around the house. I won't mention my Duxback pants again. However, we are getting away from the great V Grade 16 gauge Parker that we were originally discussing. What a gun.
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Austin Hogan
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 12:49 am |
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Tom: The wide forarm is often called a trap forend in the early catalogs , and usually a Beavertail, or BTFE since WWII. It's original purpose was to keep the shooter's fingers of the hot barrel in trap competitition, where many rounds are fired in rapid succession. SC, SB, SA etc are grades of Parker single barrel trap guns. Parker first fitted wide forends to single barrel trap guns around the time of WWI, and by popular demand, fitted and retrofitted BTFE's to doubles begining in the 1920's.
I think the dark inlay is buffalo horn.
Best, Austin
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 02:42 am |
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Austin - I was beginning to understand the size of this BTFE when posts made here quickly recognized its presence in the b/w photo. Based on what I know to date, I believe that dad may not have known that this gun was configured for trap. Can't remember the word ever being said. First post on this forum has me saying the gun was never altered or changed. Those were words from my dad's mouth. That is what makes me think he didn't know. He certainly knew he had a great gun.
You mention the barrel thickness as compared to the two 16g that you compared it to. Since trap is thicker barrel, did that take a slightly different shell, or would the chamber size be contant both your guns and mine, but the barrel thickness would be the only difference?
Also, I'm having trouble understanding where the locking lug might be to find a number you were asking me for. That has me obviously at the breach area when I open the gun. The only numbers I have found there are below the barrels at the breach. And it's the serial number of the gun. I figure thats not it because you were already comparing your two 16s by near age. I will post a picture of the area. Maybe you could copy it from the page and repost it with a circle around the lug. I hope so. I had another question, but I find myself brain-dead at the moment. I will hold the fort here until I hear from you. Thanks again Austin.
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Jay Gardner
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 02:44 am |
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This is what I really enjoy about this forum - an appreciation for the way things used to be; guns, coats, pants, boots, whatever. Why is it that these relatively unimportant details from our youth are the pegs we hang some much on today?
My father never owned a Parker. In fact, his only gun was a 20 ga. Springfield single-shot he purchased in the mid-20's from a hardware store in Owensville, Indiana. My father passed-away 2-years ago, next month but I have the old Springfield, still in the original box, wrapped in the original oil/wax paper. The barrels are perfect, the finish pretty close and the case colors are still strong. He helped feed his family and several other families with that shotgun during the depression. I don't know that he ever killed a duck and I am sure that he never killed a grouse, but the rabbits and quail he bagged have to have numbered in the hundreds. Sitting next to me as I type this are 4-Winchester Ranger shells, 2-1/2", 1-oz., #8 shot, that were in a box in his dresser. Perfect red paper hulls with low brass, just like new. I want to shoot one just to smell the warm hull and burnt powder
Last month I was helping my mother clean out some closets on the garage. I pulled down his old green tackle box, just as heavy as ever, and opened it up. There I found countless Jitter-bugs and Hula-poppers and a glob of melted purple night-crawlers, all as they were when he and I fished 30-years ago. I also found two old bait-casting reels, almost like new. (For the record his nickname was Joe "Backlash" Gardner). What really got me was the smell. It was perfect - exactly the way it was when I used to paw through that tackle box as a kid.
Sorry, I did not mean to go off on a tangent, but what has struck me about this thread is that I am not the only person who feel so strongly about these things. As I said to Tom in an earlier post, I can only hope that someday my daughter or a grandchild picks up something of mine and finds a memory that makes him/her feel the same way as do I.
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Weathered corn, an apple left unnoticed on the tree, the crunch of frosted stubble underfoot, wood smoke in the evening - these things remind me of the wild, fall days of boyhood...the best of those days were the Saturday's, afield with my dad.
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 03:38 am |
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Jay - These guys we call "dad"' left us with great things that still have their smell. That same smell from 20, 30, 40 , 50 years ago. The bag posted here, ever since I can remember, was Joe McNeff's House of Parker. That 16g has never slept anywhere else. This canvas bag with the handle missing is so saturated with oil, I I'm not so sure I'm not a partner in OPEC. First thing I do when I open the bag each year and take out the Parker.......and put my face at the opening of the bag.......and inhale.........then exhale........inhale.........exhale.
You can tell that Bill Murphy was ready to load up and tell his story as well......just like you now. That is how important these guys were.....and still are. First thing I did after Bill's last post was to go and find out what a Model 12 was. Had to see what was important to him that came from his dad. Most of the folks at this forum didn't just fall into the woods on there own. Dad took em there.
As for myself leaving any odor, I had to quit playing basketball a month ago. With this old man smell starting to hang on me getting close to 60, no one would guard me anymore. The guys I played with think I need to burn everything I own.
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C Roger Giles
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 04:01 am |
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Tom and Jay your words of time remembered from your fathers hunting and fishing gear is a perfect fit into my recall as I think back about sporting times I had with my dad.
The tackle box (Kennedy) which I still have and when I purchased one of my own it also is a Kennedy and the aroma is the same in both boxes. I also have dad's assortment of fishing poles including flyrods but I bought other rods as dad's probably were not on the market when I started to accumulate my equipment.
Dad's shotgun was a Brow'n sweet sixteen which I still have and when I had the funds for my first decent shotgun it also is a Brow'n sweet sixteen. My hunting lessons started in the woods hunting squirrels in northern Ohio and dad wore one of his older fedoras but no necktie and his old stiff canvas coat that has long since been lost to moms cleaning out the closets. The coat was worn for many a phesant season that I enjoyed as dad's hunting partner. Mom also said it would stand up on it's own and more then likely did not care for the aroma it emited, hence it's being tossed when dad no longer hunted. BTW our dogs loved to sleep on it if it was left where they could get it on the floor. Cocker Spaniels
This has been a fun thread and a will someone else keep up the fond memories of times past. Roger
Last edited on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 04:13 am by C Roger Giles
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Tom McNeff
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Posted: Wed Jul 6th, 2005 12:38 pm |
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Austin - I just noticed from the picture post I made yesterday with the gun open, that there seems to be a very noticable flare to ends of the barrels. Is that the only area of added thickness and not the whole barrel?
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Tom McNeff
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