| Author | Post |
|---|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2007 04:22 pm |
|
Thanks again to all the contributors. I'd very much like to add damascus brls stamped 'D2' and 'D5'. Any good candidates out there?
And once the 'Parker Damascus' album is at least reasonably inclusive, I'd be happy to make it into a Word document and send it to the 'Paker Pages' guy. The only intent is to educate and entertain (and because it's fun  )
Last edited on Sat Jul 28th, 2007 04:22 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Dave Suponski
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 1027 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 01:17 am |
|
Drew,Here is a picture of the breech end of my 1896 BH.Dr Gaddy refinished the barrels. The picture really does not do the barrels justice. Dave...
____________________
Dave....
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 02:13 am |
|
| Stunning Dave, and we'll get those beauties added. Is there a 'D' stamp? 'D5'? Last edited on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 02:14 am by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 03:41 am |
|
I've gone back through previous threads and have added some excellent pics of Larry Frey's 1874 and Dennis Gillis' 1878 guns. In comparing the patterns, they are both Three Iron Crolle, but the 78' gun has smaller 'scrolls.'
This is Dave Purnell's 1874 Dollar Grade and it's quite easy to pick out the ribband weld line with two full scrolls between two 1/2 scrolls within the weld lines
Hope that helps.
This Linder Daly might be 6 Iron Crolle with tiny 'scrolls', but I can't be sure without closer inspection
and BTW: the Belgian 6 Iron crolle brls in the Birmingham Proof House test of 1891 did much poorer than both the British and Belgian 3 & 4 Iron Crolle brls
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 02:57 pm |
|
Gloria a Dios, found Fred Preston's 16g GHE (on p. 87 ) I've been having a very difficult time 'reading' the GH and DH patterns. Here you can clearly pick out the ribband weld lines and this is certainly Four Iron Crolle-3 full scrolls between two 1/2 scrolls within the weld lines
It does seem that the D4 pattern is rounder and more symmetric than the slightly oval scrolls on the D3 pattern.
We've now found D3 damascus on G and D guns, and D4 on G, D, and a C (which usually had Bern4)
BTW: If no one is interested in this stuff other than me and Dave Miles, I'll stop
Last edited on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 03:05 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Dave Suponski
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 1027 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 03:40 pm |
|
Drew,Yes my BH is marked DD5 but there is no proof marks of any kind on the tubes. And please don,t stop posting this is very interesting stuff.I tried to put your site on my favorites but can,t seem to get it done.I really don,t want this to get lost in a post.
Dave....
____________________
Dave....
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 04:02 pm |
|
Thanks Dave, that's what I was hoping for and will add that to the caption on the PictureTrail.
And mas Gloria a Dios-just found a pic (on about p. 74) from Dr Gaddy's sample board that Dave must have been holding back on me that has to be his D3 example!!
Last edited on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 04:40 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Sun Jul 29th, 2007 10:12 pm |
|
Gentlemen: I've been through 80 pages of discussion and now have an excellent collection of Parker damascus, from Dave Miles' Twist to his AHE contribution and the 'TERRELL' gun. Whenever possible, appropriate attributions have been made. Please let me know if there are any errors (or if you'd like me to delete your pic) and thanks again to all the contributors! http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery.fcgi?p=999&gid=17227428
Austin: if you'd like me to put this into a Word document and e-mail it to you, I'd be happy to do that. Drew
Last edited on Mon Jul 30th, 2007 03:31 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Ben Yarian
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jun 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 340 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 03:09 am |
|
Drew. Thank you for the posts and pics. I am finding this to be fascinating.
Ben
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 12:49 pm |
|
It's been fun and a real education for me Ben-how's your pup?
Looking through about any thread regarding damascus, there seems to be a recurring question as to how to 'read' the patterns. I'm still learning, and it helps alot to know the grade of the gun in question but this might help:
Have found 4 excellent examples showing 2-, 3-, and 4-Iron Crolle patterns in which you can clearly count the number of 'scrolls' between the 'ribband' weld lines. This works fairly well in "Turkish" crolle patterns, not so well in others as the weld lines can be difficult to distinguish.
The 'ribband' weld lines are seen clearly in this 'Black and White' refinished Two Iron Crolle pattern. Within the weld is one 'scroll', representing one 'iron' or 'blade', and 1/2 of the adjacent 'iron' on each side. F Grade Lefever:
This is Two Iron Crolle "Horseshoe" on what is probably a "New Baker" transition gun without the rib extension bolting mechanism. Note the ribband weld lines are a bit more difficult to pick out, but you can still see a more open full scroll with a 1/2 scroll on each side:
Three Iron Crolle (especially the "Turkish" pattern) has two full scrolls with a 1/2 scroll on each side. LC Smith 'Finest Damascus' and BTW: this is a Hunter Arms Syracuse style A2. The very highest Syracuse Quality 7 guns had 4 iron 'Herring-bone Finest Damascus'
Four Iron Crolle:
Three full scrolls between two 1/2 scrolls within the ribband weld lines. Baker Presentation Grade with a pattern which is similar to D4:
Last edited on Mon Jul 30th, 2007 05:47 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 824 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 05:01 pm |
|
| Drew, This has been a fun and interesting thread. Since you picked up the photo of my old lifter I thought I'd send a shot of the barrels after D.E. refinished them as the pattern is much more visible. Attached Image (viewed 644 times):
|
Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 824 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 05:04 pm |
|
| Here is a shot of a pair of Bernard barrels in 16 and 12 gage. Attached Image (viewed 355 times):
|
Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 824 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 05:07 pm |
|
| This is the rest of the gun. If you want high res. photo's vs. these resized for posting let me know and I will send them along. Attached Image (viewed 349 times):
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Mon Jul 30th, 2007 05:27 pm |
|
Wow Larry-how did I miss those pics!?! We'll get them added. And a bit different Bernard pattern.
Leopold Bernard (1832-1867) was a gun, cannon, and brl maker in Paris. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.littlegun.be/arme%2520francaise/artisans%2520a%2520b/a%2520bernard%2520leopold%2520fr.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLeopold%2BBernard%2B%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
'Bernard' was also a generic description of a damascus production technique and pattern. There were 30 brl makers in the Syndicat des Fabricants de canons de fusils de la Vesdre, Nessonvaux, and probably all of them made a pattern they called 'Bernard.' I sure wish records existed as to the source of the barrels that Parker used over the years! Unfortunately, the factories that were not destroyed in the first World War were pretty much gone after WW II.
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 01:26 am |
|
I've been examining and zooming Dave's incredible BH brls and am fairly confident they are "Extra Fine" Four Iron Crolle, which were stronger than Six Iron brls in the Birmingham Proof House 1891 tests. "Rose Pattern Bernard II", "Bernard I", "Leclerc", "Chain" or "Chainette", "American Flag", and "Star" are mostly Four Iron Crolle variants, and were available in several different grades. The smaller and more symmetric the scrolls, the 'Finer' the grade.
These are Dr Gaddy's "English Four Iron Crolle" samples and look more like D4
Last edited on Wed Aug 1st, 2007 01:55 am by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 02:47 am |
|
Larry, as you know, it is my fondest wish to shoot that beautiful Parker for a round or two of clays. I love that gun.
Drew, you have done a remarkable amount of research on Damascus and you are rapidly becoming the "man in the know" where it comes to identifying the many variations of Damascus and the relative terms. It is a staggering undertaking that I only wish I had more time to invest in. Keep up the good work and think seriously about a definitive book of your findings. I, for one, would be more than glad to let you use anything in the way of photos that I can provide.
Dean
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 02:55 am |
|
Thanks so much Dean, and everyone has been most gracious in sharing their treasures. This has been great fun for me, and it seems that the more I learn, the more that I realize I still don't know. And as I previously said, I'm just so thankful that some of Dr Gaddy's knowledge has been rediscovered!
Pete Mikalajunas and I are trying hard to connect Belgian makers with their US clients and just last week he made a Colt connection, so maybe we'll find the Parker 'clue' before long. Hopefully the rest of the story won't be long in coming.
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 824 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 11:27 am |
|
| Dean, Bring some 16's to the Vintager's and you can shoot it all you'd like.
|
Drew Hause MD
Member
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 02:14 pm |
|
Just got another lead on the odd 'LD' on Ken's barrel Could be L. Drion (scroll down toward the bottom):
http://translate.google.com:80/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://perso.orange.fr/mallorquina/source/pageS.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSyndicat%2Bli%25C3%25A9geois%2Bpour%2Bla%2Bfabrication%2Bdes%2Barmes%2Bde%2Bguerre%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
Last edited on Wed Aug 1st, 2007 06:40 pm by Drew Hause MD
____________________
http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
|
Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 1st, 2007 06:18 pm |
|
Larry Frey wrote: Dean, Bring some 16's to the Vintager's and you can shoot it all you'd like.
Tou're on, Larry. I've got some nice RST's that it should digest easily.
Dean
|
Current time is 07:04 pm | Page:   1 2 3 4   |
|
