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Austin Hogan
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 15th, 2005 |
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| Posts: | 1600 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 03:07 am |
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I recieve many of your guns, photograph the portrait for Parker Pages, and return them. I also handle the raffle guns, and a few donated to PGCA. I have never had a failure (knock on wood) in a Del Grego, Criswell or Chadick carton shipped USPS registered.
About ten years ago, I shipped a barrel set Fedex to Briley. Briley returned it UPS. I have dropped off some barrels at Briley's, and Briley's returned them UPS. I save Briley's UPS boxes as I save Del Grego's USPS boxes( and Lawrence gave me a lesson on how to use a Del Grego box). I continue to send guns to Del Grego USPS in their boxes, and barrels to Briley in their UPS boxes. So far, no difficulties.
I recieve letters and emails from PGCA members that do not recieve PP until weeks or months after other members. These slow deliveries all seem to indicate an individual USPS distribution center or local Post Office. I think the same is true of arms shipment damage; individual shipping and distribution centers are the culprits.
Best, Austin
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Mike Franzen
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 05:29 am |
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Bill Murphy wrote: Take the contract maggot to small claims court. Bill, to whom are you reffering as the "contract maggot"? UPS or the agent? The agent is now claiming they will never ship another gun. This just gets more disgusting; first, an original Parker Gun ruined and now another bad taste for guns in general!Last edited on Tue Jul 17th, 2007 05:32 am by Mike Franzen
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 12:10 pm |
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| I was referring to the shipping store. Of course, you could claim damage from either or both. SC court is supposed to be a common sense venue with very little insistence on legal correctness, at least in the olden days. I don't think you have created a monster by causing the shipping store to quit handling guns. They shouldn't be handling guns if the insurance is a scam. By the way, my PVC barrel shipping tube does not get boxed, it gets a shipping label taped to the outside or the address in permanent magic marker. I secure the unglued cap with sheet metal screws. So far, so good. Unfortunately, it is a bit heavy, is larger than it needs to be.
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Allan H. Swanson
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 12:20 pm |
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| Very simple -- make a 3/4" pine box ,break the gun down , securely pack the gun inside the box , screw the top on and tape all joints--bring it to your local Post Office and mail same registered,insured--I do it this way all the time and have NEVER had a problem !!! Allan
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Don Kaas
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Palm,PA |
| Posts: | 2720 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 01:20 pm |
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Despite Bill's "advice", the laws govern the higher courts also govern the lower ones. The more informal nature of the "J.P.", magistrate's or district court or the so-called small claims court while it promotes access does not usually negate the more precise aspects of the legal proceeding. The law of liability and its limitation as it relates to negligence is rather complex especially in the case of carriers like UPS and their agents. In my personal life, despite 3 decades of being a lawyer, if it's small enough to qualify as a "small claim" it's too small to worry (i.e. litigate) about.
As a practical matter I am a member of the USPS camp and I have my all guns insured by an insurance company under a blanket policy. I have shipped hundreds of time over the years with only minor damage caused by my laziness in packing. Eventually a mail truck will overturn and my Parker will burn to death. I hope it's soon I want to see how the insurance company handles the claim!
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 01:56 pm |
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| Don, regardless of legal details, I have seen judges in small claims court use common sense and tell everyone to "play nicely and give this fellow his money". Maybe that isn't "the law" but the guy on the wrong end of an argument will not usually fight a presiding judge on a point of law when only a few bucks are in dispute. In my jurisdiction, it was, at one time, recommended that professional legal assistance not be utilized in SC court. Of course, I haven't been there in years, so things may be different now, especially in Montgomery County, Maryland. Last edited on Tue Jul 17th, 2007 01:58 pm by Bill Murphy
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
| Posts: | 4887 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 02:08 pm |
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| My PVC tube gets boxed for the simple reason that it has been my experience that when attempting to "gorilla-proof" a package in some kind of indestructible container the occasional "gorilla" takes it as a personal challenge to damage it.
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RICHARD L ANDERSON
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Tue May 31st, 2005 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1208 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 04:40 pm |
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I have just received a 16 0 frame from UPS. The sender sent the gun in a Leg-O-Mutton case and padded the gun and the shipping box. It came through without a scratch .
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Mike Franzen
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 03:12 am |
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| Well the "Contract Maggot" offered me $250 as a fair deal on the ruined gun. She says they packed it as a "favor" to me and they normally never package anything. She staes she didn't break the gun so why should she pay anything? I say I entrusted it to their experience and care and they are at fault. I guess we'll let it play out in the court.
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5872 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:41 am |
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| Wait a minute, Mike, you paid an insurance premium, suffered a loss, and filed a claim. Where does "favor" fit in there? No, they didn't break the gun, they sold you insurance and collected the premium. Now it's their turn to pay the freight. I agree with Dean, the PVC packaging may cause some problems if not packed in cardboard. I once saw a Southwest frieght handler throw my case from the top of one cart to the hard empty bottom of another cart. I knew from long experience that there would be no damage to the contents but it opened my eyes to the possibility. The passengers on one whole side of the plane could see the toss, but it didn't keep him from "tossing". A suitcase thrown the same way could easily have popped open. Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:46 am by Bill Murphy
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 04:30 pm |
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PVC; I like it. I have a map tube made up just like yours Dean, with a glued on end cap and screw on cap. I made it to strap to the struts of a small plane to fly maps between projects. I think I'll shorten it for barrel transport. Should have used it to send my 10ga bbls to Dale E here recently. Thought about it.... will do it next time for sure.
I would agree on the idea that well packaged items present a challenge to handling gorillas. I once shipped a stand up string bass from Spokane to Fairbanks. Air freight. Totally exposed, the end pin in a hole on a sq. plywood base with just 4 2x4 uprights and a 2x4 top frame. The head held stable with bungees. Completely exposed. Someone tipped it over once along the way and bent a tuner paddle, but it arrived intact other than that and I play it to this day. Another friend packed hers in foam in a huge plywood coffin, seemingly totally bomb proof, for shipment via air freight from Seattle to Anchorage and they broke the neck clean off at the heel. Go figure. I still can't figure out how they did that one.
Don't give up Mike. Someone owes you and you'll win if you persevere. Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 04:47 pm by Richard Flanders
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Bill Frech
BBS Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 04:37 pm |
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| Mike - I had a similar experience with FEDEX last year. A D grade Parker was delivered to me with the stock broken in two at the wrist. Admittedly, the shipper was partially to blame, as he did not break the gun down, and shipped it assembled. None the less, it took some carelessness to do the damage that was done. Because it was an extremely nice gun for the money, I wanted to keep it. The seller assigned his rights to the insurance proceeds over to me. O.K. so far. They it got ugly. Three return receipt letters to FEDEX went unanswered. On at least a half dozen phone calls to them, I was told I had to speak with a supervisor, and none was available, but one would call back within 24 hours. My phone never rang. I finally received a letter from them with a check for the insurance premium stating that the gun was not insurable in the first place. My attorney sent a letter. Three weeks later I had a check. I assure you, they don't want a local agent appearing in court on their behalf opposing a well informed plaintiff with an attorney. The only other alternative for them is to dispatch a prepared company attorney to your local courthouse, which I expect, in most cases, would cost them more than a settlement, and there would still be the possibility you would prevail and they would owe your attorney fees as well. Keep records of all correspondence, conversations, etc. You'll need them.
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Bill
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 05:44 pm |
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Last year there was a post on Double Gun BBS by a friend who shipped a valuable shotgun USPS Registered. The gun was destroyed, bent barrels and reciever as well as splintered stock. The gun was sent to USPS claim center in Atlanta where is was lost. USPS said that because it was a gun they would not pay the claim and because it was lost they could not verify the damage!!!!!!!
The claimant had to lean on his senator to finally get paid and the USPS said in the letter acconpanying the check that this was an exception and that no such claim would ever be paid again. It still might be the best way to ship, but only if you don't have to make a claim. I still use FedEX overnight priority and have had good luck. I also am a daemon packer who leaves nothing to chance. Crates, pipes, re-enforcing of all sorts and PADDING! Never ship on a week-end and inform the recipient of the time at which the package will be there while tracking on-line. Insurance is a problem as it points to a package that is worth stealing. If you wish to insure do it privately. Sometimes I just put shipping off until I can deliver myself while on a trip. David
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 06:36 pm |
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| I'm sure we would all like to hear from some shippers who have successfully received compensation for a loss on a gun shipped by USPS. I don't doubt Dave's experience, but do the postal people really "not insure guns" as Dave claims. I question why the gun went to Atlanta. My postmaster in Clarksburg, MD inspected the damage on my last claim. Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 06:38 pm by Bill Murphy
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Travis Sims
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 13th, 2005 |
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| Posts: | 265 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 07:37 pm |
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I had shipped a barrel to Dale for refinishing. He received the barrel and immediately called to say the barrels had been damaged. I asked him to ship it back to me as he found it. The lady at my office inspected the barrels and shipping material. First she didn't see any outside damage to the carton, but futher inspection showed a dent that did penetrate thourgh the carton. The damage to the barrels would have required them to be stripped and ribs relayed. I had to provide estimates on repair of dent and relaying of ribs. I returned two estimates that where within just a few dollars of each other. They paid my claim within the 30 days. I was very satisfied!
Then i sold the gun!
I will only ship USPS insured with delivery confirmation. This cover it all, insured and trackable.
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Don Larson
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 21st, 2005 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 299 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 12:49 am |
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| I started reading this thread two days ago and havent been able to sleep since as I have a perazzi sco combo headed to my FFL holder via ups...The brandy I have drank is about to break the bank...Don...
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:03 am |
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| Didn't we have a big talk on this forum about UPS difficulties and shipping about a year ago? Seems to me we did and people were talking about difficulties collecting for damage, agent refusals, etc.
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Bruce Day
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Don Larson
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 21st, 2005 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 299 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:12 am |
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 ...Please pass the Grouse...
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Dean Romig
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
| Location: | Andover, Ma |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:15 am |
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That's right Bruce, and as usual, history repeats itself. But it is a good thing that this has come around again as there are probably some new members who have not been privy to this information 'til now. Certain topics keep cropping up on this forum but I never tire of reading new opinions and experiences. These repeated topics help to keep everyone current, as in "real time."
Dean
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 08:53 pm |
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What is apparent here is that there is a great deal of variation in the response of the shipping co in the handling of claims which must include responses from agents who are talking off the tops of their heads and may be anti gun.
Geting a positive response to a claim is a bit of luck or hard work.
I didn't say one couldn't buy insurance from the shipping cos but that if you ship regularly you can buy a policy of your own. I ship fine art and that is the way to go for my business. The insurance policy often states that the packaging must be plain vanilla and no clue as to value or contents should appear on the outside. Packages sent to a gallery for instance will be addressed to an individual instead. I did get a crate of paintings from Scotland which had a printed lable on it in bright red stating " VALUABLE ART- PLEASE HANDLE WITH GREAT CARE!" davidLast edited on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 08:59 pm by David Hamilton
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