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Greg Baehman
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 01:01 pm |
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| IMHO it appears the gun has been restocked. The restocker stamped the gun's original serial number under the tang and someone also engraved the serial number into the tang. The tang also appears to not have the engraving around the screws that DHE's typically have.
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 02:19 pm |
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| I examined The Lovely Linda's DHE straight grip in the 207,000 range and, yes, it has engraving around the tang screws. Do D Grade straight grip guns in the range of Mr. Bennett's gun all have engraving around the screws. We will still reserve judgement on whether the work is "factory" regardless of the engraving around the screws question.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 03:03 pm |
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Bill Murphy wrote: Do D Grade straight grip guns in the range of Mr. Bennett's gun all have engraving around the screws.
I own a SN 228something DHE . It has engraved screws, and every D I've examined does.
If the stock on the 16ga DHE came off a V grade and was restamped, wouldn't there be indications of the old stamping still evident in the wood under the tang?
I wonder if the owner broke the stock and sent it back to Parker Bros for restocking as a straight grip and told them to restock it as inexpensively as possible, so they put a V grade stock on it. You know the price lists show increases for each grade. We've seen higher grade guns re barreled with Vulcan tubes....and it was the depression. We also have records of some guns re done at Parker Bros to change a pistol grip to straight grip.
Still its a nice gun and a wonderful family heirloom.
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Bruce Day
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 04:22 pm |
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| Bruce, I agree. There are many rebarrel jobs in steel types of a lesser value than the original. I'm sure there are also restocks done the same way. In fact, I own a CH Grade gun that letters with D Grade wood and engraving deleted. Last edited on Mon Nov 27th, 2006 04:23 pm by Bill Murphy
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edward kaspshak
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:53 pm |
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| about a year or so when i found this site researching my new addition to my gun locker i posted my 1901 12 ga. vh with streight grip english stock my gun sn is missing in records well several people said my gun was restocked etc i took some offence to some comments i have since removed trigger guard no alteration evident where s/n is stamped in stock is not legable now i see people posting like comments about the gun in this post it's not like streight stocks were uncommon why such doubt when some one posts about one no one will place value on unseen gun but will put down a gun sight unseen i was looking for advice not critical opinions such as i got several people apologized for comments posted by others i was not looking to price my gun just learning the history of it my wife thinks i should get letter i've avoided it because of above comments now i think i must
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JBennett
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | Greensboro, NC |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:24 am |
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Well said Edward. My ego began to get tarnished a bit. But...I asked the question and all are providing their input. Whether positive or negative, I must put this into the summary of what my shotgun is. This has been such a learning endeavour.
I know it was purchaced by my grandfather in '28. My father never used it nor have I. Basically, I have a shotgun that has sat in a case for 65 years. At the beginning of this trek, I knew little of the gun. Pros or cons, I have a better understanding of this piece. At least its not a Wal-mart special.
Thanks to all. But ouch!!
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John Bennett
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:33 am |
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| Ed. I (we) have done nothing but indicate that Mr. Bennett's gun has a darn good chance to be all factory work. If you got your panties in a knot at some time in the past on this site, it was a different situation than exists in Mr. Bennett's case. We are doing good service for him and he is doing his best to assist us. And by the way, Ed, I did place a value on Mr. Bennett's gun sight unseen. Last edited on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:40 pm by Bill Murphy
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 03:47 am |
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| I totally agree with Bill's assessment. All the guys on this forum want to provide Mr. Bennett is the best information on his gun that they can, and that, I assure you, is the best information available anywhere. And their conclusion does seem to indicate that the gun has a very good chance of having been modified by the factory as opposed to by a general gunsmith, which makes a H U G E difference in the value on the open market; the value to the owner as a family heirloom is totally separate from this. No one on this site has tried to trash the gun at all; they just want to give a fair evaluation of it's history and value and that can be very complicated and difficult without having the gun in hand and until they have all the information possible. I think everyone did an absolutely sterling job of helping Mr. Bennett figure his gun out and were I in his shoes, everyone who contributed useful information would be getting a bottle of Crown Royal for Xmas... These guys are absolutely the best authority on Parkers there is and a priceless resource. You take that gun to a gunsmith for an evaluation and he might charge you for it; here it's freely given with pleasure. I'm impressed and you should be too. And I welcome you to our forum; I hope we all get to help you with many more Parkers in the future, for once you have hunted with or shot one, you'll always be looking for your next one; it's an incurable disease. And by the way, there's no "ouch" to owning that gun! There's not a person on this forum that wouldn't love to add it to their collection, regardless of what's been done to it. You are one VERY fortunate Parker owner. Last edited on Tue Nov 28th, 2006 04:01 am by Richard Flanders
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Destry Hoffard
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 03:52 am |
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Guys if you don't want bad news you shouldn't ask questions. Everybody here is trying to help, if the news isn't what you were hoping for that's just the way it is.
If you think they're wrong, order a letter. Maybe you'll get lucky and prove everybody wrong, then you can get on here and crow.
Destry
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The member formerly known as Market Hunter
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 12:02 pm |
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| A great positive post, Richard. Thank you. And thanks Mr. Bennett for being so helpful providing information and pictures.
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JBennett
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 24th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 12:54 pm |
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Working with you guys has been a pleasure.
Thanks to all
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John Bennett
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:34 pm |
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This is what makes Parkers so interesting, its the variety and the anomolies. Clearly, the stock isn't true to usual D grade and the question is why. Sometimes people who are new to Parkers take offense at raising the questions, but for those who are Parker enthusiasts , they are necessary and appropriate questions.
We see higher grade guns with lower grade barrels( ex. B's with Bernard barrels, G's with Vulcan barrels) lower grades with higher grade barrels( ex. V's with D2 barrels) , engraving oddities( ex Bill Murphy's substantially unengraved C) . I own a CHE B4 with a proper stamped D stock, but checkered side panels, all passing the scrutiny of other Parker enthusiasts.
Sometimes a research letter helps explain the varience, sometimes there is no record, and you simply say the gun is what it is. Those who really know Parkers are appropriately slow to pass judgement on these issues because they have seen enough to know that Parkers are often odd, and ordered or made different from the norm for the grade.
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Bruce Day
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 01:55 pm |
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| Hey, Ed, I reviewed the original thread regarding your straight grip shotgun. The gun is missing from the Serialization Book, but should be included in Stock Book #36, copies of which are in the PGCA research collection. The page your gun is posted on could have been illegible, damaged, or whatever, but the book is not among the missing. There is a possibility that Order Book information is also available on your gun. This would give information not only on the stock, but on the original purchaser of the gun. The "research letter" section of this site indicates that information is available on your gun and a PGCA letter should shed some light on the originality of your straight grip stock. Of course, if you posted a picture, you may get some free information, but nothing beats a letter indicating that the gun was ordered and/or built as a straight grip gun.
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edward kaspshak
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Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2006 12:15 am |
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| my reply if you read has to do with attitude if i set some ones panties on fire excuse me i see no reason for responses to be attacks of character of either gun or owner seeking info
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed Nov 29th, 2006 10:05 pm |
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| Well, Ed, then forget the information I shared with you in my last post. You are obviously looking more for apologies than information. However, I fail to see where anyone's gun or character were attacked. It was not easy for me to access the year old thread, but I thought I could add to your knowledge, and if you would read my post, you would see that I did offer more information. Last edited on Wed Nov 29th, 2006 10:10 pm by Bill Murphy
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Tom Leshinsky
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 04:41 pm |
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| In case anyone is interested this gun is avalible on the doublegun BBS. I havenothing to do with this gun, just a heads up.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 05:03 pm |
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| And I thought this was a valuable family heirloom.
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Bruce Day
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 05:24 pm |
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| It is hard to believe that a gun handed down formm an ansestor would only be an article of trade, at least that is (Ibelieve) the way most people on this forum feel. There was a Parker that belonged to my Grandfather but it passed out of my branch of the family to someone who hunted very little. I don't know which of his daughters' husbands has it now but at least it will be hunted and appreciated. But SOLD? ARRRRAGH, SIR !!!!!! david Last edited on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 05:25 pm by David Hamilton
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 06:23 pm |
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| My Dad died in 1974. He bought a 1966 Chevrolet when I was in college and when he was on trips, I used to "borrow" it to make less than two hour commutes from Fort Lee to Washington. Every trip was an attempted world land speed record. I loved that car. The MPs hated it because it didn't have a post sticker and I used to have a running hide and seek game with the tow trucks. When Dad died, I gave the car to my youngest daughter. She drove that car like someone else paid for it and the gas. When she could afford another car, she would give it back to me for a few months or years. Then she would reclaim it for a few months or years. Finally I got it back for good, intending to do a street restoration since at nearly 30 years old, it was still running well. A couple of years ago, I got too many irons in the fire and passed Dad's old 283 off to a stranger. A real car guy wouldn't have done that, but I'm a real shotgun guy, not a car guy. We can't expect everyone to be real shotgun guys. If they were, there wouldn't be anything out there to buy.
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David Hamilton
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 08:37 pm |
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| Bill, I'm all sympathy with your sale of an old friend auto. You can't put them in the closset and ignore them for years on end. They deteriorate , require insurance and take up lots of room. Guns on the other hand can be like fine art. Don't take lots of space, don't need to be insured and can be handed down with out being in one's estate. They can have no value, or one can list them as assets. In other words they can be a very sophisticated investment. Just like fine art. I do agree you you about taste and thank God we are able to own things of value that others don't care for. David Last edited on Thu Dec 7th, 2006 08:41 pm by David Hamilton
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