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JBennett
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 02:56 pm |
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| another pic
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John Bennett
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JBennett
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 02:59 pm |
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| of the buttstock Attached Image (viewed 493 times):
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John Bennett
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ED J. MORGAN
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 03:02 pm |
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| The number on the lump is a 1. meaning a # 1 frame size, which is one of the std. frames for a 16 ga. gun. regards ed.
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JBennett
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 03:07 pm |
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Bill Murphy wrote: The serialization book lists your gun as a 16 gauge with automatic shell ejectors and 28 inch barrels. This is a very coveted combination, especially with the straight English grip stock which your gun has. A letter of provenance from PGCA would be likely only to confirm the originality of the features but not give any information about the original owner, retailer, or wholesaler of your gun. Such information is usually available on guns made in 1919 or before, but not on guns made as late as 1928. Your gun, if in fact a fairly high condition 16 gauge, is worth in mid to high four figures. Bill You made mention of the "Straight English Grip Stock". How does this play based on thoughts that the stock could be a replacement. Penny (or a dollar) for your thoughts.
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John Bennett
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 04:15 pm |
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| A very bright and clear picture of the tang of the trigger guard would give us clues to whether it may have been a replacement to accommodate the straight English replacement stock. The serialization book indicates this gun to have been manufactured with a capped pistol grip stock, but that book is only partially accurate having been physically compiled by young keypunch operators who may have had trouble deciphering some of the information they were reading from original hand written records. If the replacement stock and possibly replacement trigger guard were of quality indicating work done at Parker Brothers or Remington Arms Company, the loss of value resulting from this work would be somewhat less than the loss incurred were the work done by strangers. Work done at Remington would be indicated by a usually three digit combination of letters and a number on the flats of the barrels. Your picture of the barrel flats does not show any such stamping. Are there any such three figures stamped in the dark areas that we can't see in the picture? Last edited on Sat Nov 25th, 2006 04:20 pm by Bill Murphy
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Phil Murphy
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 06:16 pm |
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Thanks for the picture of the barrel flats. They are for a 16 gauge 1 frame. The unstruck weight of the barrels was 3 pounds 5 ozs. If you remove the trigger guard, you should find the serial number of the gun stamped into the channel. I agree with a previous poster that noticed the stock shield. DH grade normally has an oval shield. The checkering on the butt looks odd to me. It doesn't seem to be the right number of lines per inch, and the shape of the diamonds is a little odd.
Phil
Last edited on Sat Nov 25th, 2006 06:17 pm by Phil Murphy
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JBennett
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Posted: Sat Nov 25th, 2006 09:53 pm |
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| This is a picture of the serial number on the tongue of the Trigger Guard. The serial number ties in. Attached Image (viewed 504 times):
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John Bennett
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Phil Murphy
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 03:43 pm |
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Mr. Bennett,
The serial number on the stock is under the trigger guard, imprinted in the wood.
Phil
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JBennett
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 09:33 pm |
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| Much to my surprise, the serial number matches. attached is a picture Attached Image (viewed 464 times):
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John Bennett
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Kevin Finnerty
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 10:19 pm |
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| Once again.... Never say never! The V grade stock shield may have been special ordered.... A letter could be really interesting! Fun stuff! Neat find! Last edited on Sun Nov 26th, 2006 10:23 pm by Kevin Finnerty
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Pat Boccuzzi
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 10:40 pm |
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The book reads a 16 DHE capped pistol grip gun. So would one say this was a factory restock at the parker factory back in the day ?
Just like the parker VHE 28 gauge 00 frame i own with the factory GHE wood. Well It's a little different The factory letter reads capped pistol grip with spured butt plate and the little Gem still is still a capped pistol grip.
Pat
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Pat Boccuzzi
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 10:43 pm |
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| Can someone explain why no tear drops on the wood ?
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 11:31 pm |
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| A seasoned Parker observer would have a strong opinion one way or another upon a close examination of this gun. The unfortunate part is that no documentation is available to prove one way or another. Remington repair codes would suggest factory work, but we have not heard whether there are such codes on the barrel flats. The pictures are a little dark in the area where the Remington codes would appear. The owner misinterpreted the post indicating that a serial number might appear under the trigger guard in the wood channel. The quality of wood to metal fit would be more of a clue for me than a serial number under the trigger guard. The trigger guard and the engraving of the serial number appears pretty factory to me. I assume the gun was an original straight grip gun. However, the V or G Grade wood is still a mystery.
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Christopher S. Lien
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Posted: Sun Nov 26th, 2006 11:42 pm |
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JBennett------
Mr. Murphy asked a good question earlier you have not yet addressed...
This may be a later re-stock by Remington. The owner (for whatever reason?) could have requested it be converted to a straight grip where he was content to settle for a V-grade stock that would have been a little cheaper than D grade wood. An unusual request to step down a few grades for a re-stock, but not a complete impossibility for what he may have considered (at that time) to be just another 16ga "shooter" in his closet.
As Bill suggested earlier there may be a combination of letters and number 3 on the barrel flats. The photo you posted earlier of the flats is slightly tilted where it is hard to see if there are any additional codes. Take another look at your barrel flats and see if there is anything stamped in the same area as the image I have posted below.
CSL
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JBennett
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 12:21 am |
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| This is the barrel flats on the Shotgun. For all that have offered information on this shotgun, I truly appreciate your time. It has been a very fast education. Thank you. Attached Image (viewed 448 times):
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John Bennett
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Christopher S. Lien
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 12:36 am |
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JBennett,
The area we are trying to see is still blocked out by the angle of your photo. We need to clearly see the place indicated by the "black-arrow" in the image I posted previously. Or, you can just tell us if there is anything stamped in that location?
CSL
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Eric Eis
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 12:38 am |
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| Well it looks as if we are back a square one. There are no Remington codes but that is not to say it didn't happen. I just bought a DHE 12 gauge 239xxx that has a Parker single trigger (book confirms 26" barrels but not the single trigger) and the gun is an honest gun, when I took it apart the floorplate which has nice colors on the outside but when you look at the inside it is definately Remington cyanide colors on the back of the plate. So was this gun sent back for the single trigger and the floor plate recased? There are no Remington date codes on the barrels. Was this gun a J's gun redone by DeGrego or Remington good question. That's what makes this collecting process fun. Eric
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JBennett
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 10:40 am |
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| There is nothing stamped in the location you indicated.
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John Bennett
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Derrick Stewart
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:59 am |
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JB,
I live just south of Greensboro in Julian. I have a 1907 DHE that I would be gald to show you so you can compare. Just PM me if you want to talk Parkers.
Derrick
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 12:09 pm |
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| Mr. Bennett, the lack of Remington repair code stamps does not eliminate the possibility that the gun was restocked at the Parker factory before the Remington takeover in 1934. Again, the quality of the restock will speak volumes to an experienced Parker collector who may examine your gun.
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