damascas bbl.

[Bill Ericksen]

Hi,

Is there a way to tell if a dam. bbl. (circa 1922) was proofed for nitro?

Thanks

Bill E.

[OH Osthaus]

Since we have never had a national proof house, Parker, as did all the quality makers, proofed their own barrels to their own standard. there was no reproofing done.

just a guess, but I would think by 1922 smokeless was the norm.

the real question would be - has it been alterred? Is it still in proof?

[charlie cleveland]

would some one give us a definition on how a gun could get out of proof...i know myself but i aint good at putting it in the rite words

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland

would some one give us a definition on how a gun could get out of proof...i know myself but i aint good at putting it in the rite words

out of proof means that the barrel dimensions have been altered,

in many if not most cases - honing to bore to clean it up, altering chambers or forcing cones I think would also count. also, but more rarely, by restriking.

if metal has been removed to any significant amount, the tubes would be out of proof

and in countries with proof houses - by law must be retested.

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Bill Ericksen

Hi,

Is there a way to tell if a dam. bbl. (circa 1922) was proofed for nitro?

Thanks

Bill E.

TPS provides information about how barrels were proofed. As in many Parker matters, much can be learned from TPS. By around 1900, the changeover to nitro pattern loads was complete. Original hang tags and often a research letter provides patterning information with powder used, but not proof, as bulk nitro ( Woods) is assumed. A 1922 barrel likely has never seen a black powder load. Black powder was phased out beginning in about 1895 , resulting in many cartridge changes such as the .30 cal US of 1906, .45 ACP, etc.

Later damascus barrels, circa 1927 will be stamped "Overload Proved" as the SAAMI standards became widely adopted. Parker didn't changed a thing, as they already met them.

Not that it really matter much, because the bulk nitro and later progressive burning smokeless powders provided a broader pressure profile than black. That's why many of the guns from the black era had massive chamber walls, to withstand the sharper pressure profile of black.

[Ray Masciarella]

The fact that BP was being phased out by 1895, doesn't necessarily means BP wasn't widely available for sale. In fact it was for all those guns made in the BP era. Folks didn't just throw them away when smokeless became the state of the art.
A 1922 barrel wasn't likely to see much BP but it was available, wasn't it? I think what a 1922 damascus barrel really means there it could be used safely with the smokeless of the day. Am I thinking correctly here?

Thx, Ray

[Bruce Day]

Some people then as now continue to use black powder in shotguns, 45-70 rifles, Colt SAA and all sorts of guns. They like the smoke and nostalgia I suppose.

I was referring to Parker patterning loads for the changeover to nitro around 1900. If you look at enough hang tags, you'll see exclusive use of nitro starting at least as late as 1900.

A 1922 damascus barrel really means that it and fluid steel barrels passed the same proof tests that Parker used at the time, averaging 15,500 psi for a 12 ga. That of course doesn't mean the barrels will rupture immediately above that. Again, see the TPS tables, which I have posted here many times. Parker provided suggested load tables expressed in ounces of shot and drams of powder, drams for black and drams equivalent for bulk smokeless. A person could shoot black out of a Vulcan and smokeless from damascus, whatever his fancy.

[charlie cleveland]

thanks O H for the defination ofnot in proof.... charlie

[George Lander]

My Dad once told me the story of how, during WWII, smokeless powders were unavailable. One day a farmer was burning off a huge field and invited him and some friends to bring their guns. They went to a local store and the only shells that were available had been handloaded with black powder. On returning to the field they would wait for a rabbit to run out and shoot. Then they would have to run several yards to the side to see if they hit anything.

Beast Regards, George

[Ed Blake]

I would add that a 1922 Parker Bros. damascus barrel was the same as an 1892 Parker Bros. damascus barrel. Stay within the recommended loads published by Parker and you will shoot safely whether with black or smokeless. I've never run the first black powder load through any of my damascus barreled Parkers. Those BP loads kick too much, heat the barrels up too much, and are a mess to clean up after.