Old Ammo

C.O.B. · 07-07-2010, 08:14 PM

Recently I found a box of Remington Kleenbore Nitro Express 28ga paper shells. These are loaded with 3/4 oz of shot. The thing thats puzzeling is that these are 2 7/8 inches in length. I have a box of Peters Target loads also 28ga that are 2 3/4 in length and 3/4 oz of shot. The Remington shells are green while the Peters are blue. Both are paper hulls.

Is the difference in color due to RemingtonVS Peters? When were 2 7/8 length produced? Another difference is that the Remingtons are roll crimped while the Peters arn't.

Roundsworth · 07-07-2010, 09:26 PM

The green and blue were standard colors for quite awhile. If your box has the DuPont oval logo, it is post 1933. The green Kleanbore line, in the green box, was introduced in 1931. In 1939, Remington introduced the star crimp. It took until 1947 to phase in all lines. Late 1933 saw the corrugated paper shell body from Remington. I don't have much info on Peters. The 2-7/8" 28 bore was also made by WRA Co. and is shown in the 1914 and 1920 catalogs, but seems to be gone by 1928. I would think that the big companies did not like to be 'one-upped' by the others, so Remington or Peters probably adopted the longer shell during the same time frame. I do not have any Remington info on that particular size. I hope that wasn't more confusing than helpful!

Dean Romig · 07-07-2010, 10:37 PM

Very informative Mark - thanks.

C.O.B. · 07-08-2010, 09:05 AM

Mark-Thank you very much for the information. A person could make quite a hobby out of studying these old shells. I buy them for decoration for the "Gun Room" and just happened to notice the unusual (to me) length of 2 7/8. Were early 28's chambered for this longer length or were they used in std 2 3/4 chambers?

Roundsworth · 07-08-2010, 06:15 PM

TheModel (19)12 was not made in 28 gauge in 1914 or 1928. It is an option in 1941 for the Model 12 and 37, but not the 21 (not even custom!) According to Madis, the 28 gauge was added to the Model 12 line-up in 1934 and dropped in 1958. The Model 21 was chambered for the 28 in 1936. Nothing about chamber lengths. There seems to be a lot of differences between Mr. Madis' book and actual catalogs. I guess a person had to inquire with the factory to make sure. As for Western, they bought WRA Co. in 1931. Boxes were not marked as such until 1939. Olin came into the picture in 1944. Boxes were marked 'Olin' in 1946. I have lotsa good Winchester info! Cheers!

Roundsworth · 07-08-2010, 08:18 PM

Here is a photo for your enjoyment!
Left to Right: 50x3-1/4", 4 gauge NPE, 10 gauge, 12 gauge, 16 gauge, 28 gauge (2-7/8")

Hmmmm...as for Madis, that is a challenge!

charlie cleveland · 07-09-2010, 09:42 AM

nice looking shells what brand of shell is the 4 ga. were is the 8 ga and 3 ga at. just a thought charlie

C.O.B. · 07-09-2010, 03:31 PM

I have Riffles book on the M12 but not the Middas book. One of the guns I wish I had back was a M12 28ga grade 5 skeet with a solid rib. I also had a matching M42. Some are kept some are tarded and some will always be missed...those two are missed

I trade a Win 101 Pigeon grade 3 bbl set (20,28,410) for the M12 and M42 but can't remember for the life of me what those were traded for...probably a Parker.

Roundsworth · 07-09-2010, 05:28 PM

The photo is old. I do have a fairly complete line-up now. The 4 is a WRA Co. (I have a loaded Eley). The 10 and 16 are black powder WRA Co. The 12 is a WRA Co. Leader. The 28 is WRA Co. I am awaiting a larger-than-4 bore NPE. When that gets here, I will have a photo with it, 4, 8, 10, 10A, 12, 14, 16, 20, 28 and 32. The weekend of Puglisi's event, my youngest daughter and I will be in Minneapolis to see Ringo and His All Starr Band. Cheers!

charlie cleveland · 07-09-2010, 06:22 PM

mark a very nice collection . wish i had a loaded 4 ga american shell. i also have a 4 ga ely shell loaded. they are kind of like parkers to look at beautifull. i passed up a 18 ga umc a while back. well hind sight is always good... charlie