Kent Tungsten Matrix 12 gauge 1400 FPS safe in a 3 frame parker?

[J.B. Books]

I have enjoyed and found light loads very effective for many years. The old high brass 12ga lead load was 3 3/4 dram 1 1/4 ounce at 1330 fps. I don't care to shoot that anymore due to what I think is excessive recoil. The low brass 3 1/4 dram 1 1/4 ounce at 1220 fps was a better factory loading.

I reload and I try to keep my MV between 1100 to 1175 no matter the weight of the payload because it is pleasant to shoot and works great. I don't think loads with MV over 1200 fps offer any increase in effectiveness, only more wear and tear on gun and shoulder.

[Drew Hause]

Turn-of-the-century Live Bird and Inanimate Target shooters used some boomer loads.

January 2 1897
Charles Grimm defeats Doc Carver in Chicago for the “Cast Iron Metal”.
Grimm used a 12-bore L.C. Smith gun, 7 3/4 pounds, 3 3/4 drams “Schultze”, 1 1/4 ounce No. 7 shot, in U.M.C. Trap shell.
Carver used a 12-bore Cashmore gun, 8 pounds weight, 4 drams of Carver powder, 1 1/4 No. 7 shot, in U.M.C. Trap shell.

The standard Live Bird load c. 1900 was 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. (1275 fps) BULK Smokeless with pressures about 11,750 psi; 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was about 12,600 psi.
The modern SAAMI 12g maximum 2 3/4" and 3" pressure is 11,500 psi

Competition guns were limited to 8# (not including recoil 'boot' or hand guard) and recoil with those loads would be about 27 ft/lbs.

[Carvel]

I agree with you Pete, in my NH 10ga I shoot 1 1/4 oz ITX at approx. 1100 fps. It seems to as good or better than my friends 3 1/2 , 1600 fps steel in ther auto loaders on geese. Carvel

[Tad Tadlock]

An African duck or a European duck?

[Craig Larter]

I hunt in a very large cattail marsh even with a master hunter dog you better put a late season mallard or black down or the chances of recovery are reduced. There is nothing like 1 3/8oz of TM #5's it just puts birds down in my experience. A trained retriever and big guns capable of digesting big shells will not disappoint. Just buy a Super Fox and a case of 1 3/8 Oz TM and learn to shoot if you want to experience waterfowling at it's best. The only better tool is a 10ga. 2 7/8" loaded with a heavy load of bismuth. OK beat me up.

[J.B. Books]

I have never lead targets, inanimate or live any differently when shooting 1100 to 1175 fps loads. When I miss it is not due to not leading the target by an additional 7 inches.

These are the leads for different velocity shells needed to CENTER a left or right crossing shot from station 4 on the skeet field, approx range 25 yards.

1145 fps 60.8 inches
1250 fps 56.8 inches
1350 fps 53.6 inches

[Kevin McCormack]

Before the advent of the cursed steel shot and the mandated non-tox, all we ever shot on ducks was the lead load of 3 1/4-1 1/4 #5s for decoyed ducks, and the 3 3/4-1 1/4-#4s for pass shooting on big puddlers or Canvasbacks and other 'heavy' ducks. After enduring the mish-mash of trying to match guns and ammo in the aftermath of the non-tox era, Kent TM or Bismuth rules for our vintage SxSs that need it, and Black Cloud is our choice for steel shot (#4s for ducks over decoys, #2s or 1s for pass shooting the biggest ducks, and BBs for geese out of a pit or BBB for pass shooting all geese. To each his own!

[Tad Tadlock]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Who has figures comparing the same pellet diameter of bismuth, ITX, TM and lead, at the same muzzle speed, and their respective 40 yard speeds?

This link Kent Cartridge Return Of Bismuth and the Ed Lowry article that is referenced have data for bismuth, steel, and lead.

[Drew Hause]

No. 8 shot and you are correct Frank.

And thanks Tad; the short version
Steel #2 MV 1400 - 40 yds. 865 fps
Lead #5 MV 1330 - 40 yds. 710 fps
Bismuth #4 MV 1350 - 40 yds. 696

[Drew Hause]

Western Cartridge Co. never marked the Super-X ‘Field’ or ‘Record’ boxes with “Dr. Eq.” stating only “Maximum Load”. It is presumed that 12g ‘Super-X Field’ 2 3/4” 1 1/4 oz. was 3 3/4 Drams Equiv. or 1330 fps, and the 3” 1 3/8 oz. ‘Record’ was 1275 - 1295 fps (the speed of 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. loads).

In a 1927 Western Cartridge Co. flyer “Super-X The Long Range Load” by Capt. Chas. Askins the 12g “Duck Load” (not specified but presumed to be 1 1/4 oz. Super-X “Field”) is described as 3 1/2 dram (38.5 gr. Powder; also not specified but no doubt DuPont Oval) #4 shot at 1400 fps (at the muzzle rather than 3 feet) and 1000 fps at 40 yards, with a breech pressure of 3 3/4 tons or about 11,480 psi by Burrard’s conversion.

From the 1928 edition of “Smokeless Shotgun Powders” by Wallace Coxe, ballistic engineer of the Burnside Laboratory of the E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.
3 1/2 Dram Eq. 1 1/4 oz. presumed #6 shot loads (1275 fps) and 40 yard fps:
NOTE: pressures were measured by crushers (LUP) and modern transducer measurement pressures would be 10 – 14% higher
DuPont Bulk smokeless powder - 11,700 psi, 943 fps
Schultze Bulk smokeless powder - 11,800 psi, 941 fps
28 grains of Ballistite Dense smokeless powder - 12,600 psi, 966 fps
All 3 are greater than the SAAMI 12g 2 3/4” recommended maximum pressure of 11,500 psi.
40 grains of DuPont Oval Progressive Burning powder - 9,400 psi, 981 fps