Parker small bore classification

[Opening Day]

Originally Posted by Tom Flanigan

British light 12 bores are a whole different category. I consider the best London game guns to be unsurpassed in every way. The light 12's built by the best British makers and proofed for light loads are wonderful. I have a case of 12 bore Eley 2" shells (full 20 two piece boxes roll crimped) given to me by my grandfathers close friend. His name was Elliot Bell and he ordered a Purdey 2" game gun back in the twenties and killed a lot of game with it including pheasants. When he had the early stages of Alzheimer's, he gave me a case of 2" shells for the Purdey and a light Belgian guild gun that was his knockabout and rainy day gun. I never got the Purdey. His wife sold that even though they didn't need the money. He was the founder and owner of Business Week magazine and was the banking commissioner of New York state in the 30's. I had always hoped to get the Purdey since his only child was a girl not interested in guns, but it didn't happen.

Rich might have his gun..........

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Rick Losey

i thought it was hits like a 12, carries like a 20

You are probably right. I have heard it different ways, but the hits like a 12 has been along that same line from what I have heard over the years.

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by Eric Eis

Rich might have his gun..........

That would be wonderful. I'd like to know where that Purdey is and how Rich got it. If the gun is Elliot Bell's gun, I can share my reminisces of the man and his hunting with the Purdey. He lived on Quaker Hill in Pawling, NY and was the consummate sportsman. He also gave me his salmon flies. He was a close friend of Governor Thomas E. Dewey who was the Republican candidate for president in 1944 and 1948. Dewey also lived on Quaker Hill and was a friend of my grandfathers. I have hunted both their estates since I was a boy and have fond remanences of both men. Which Rich are you referring to?

[Tom Flanigan]

Eric, refresh my memory. Are you the gentleman who owned the VHE in the box skeet gun?

[Tom Flanigan]

If the Purdey has EVB engraved on the stock shield then it is in all likelihood Elliot Bell's gun. Those and not common initials.

[C.O.B.]

Tom yes Eric did have the NIB skeet gun. He is referring to me in regards to the Purdey. I don't know about it being your friends gun but I would love to have those shells. I assume they are paper. I bought a case of RST 2 inch paper and they are wonderfull with 3/4oz of 7's I've had no complaints in the grouse coverts.

[Tom Flanigan]

If the Purdey does not have EVB engraved on the stock shield, it is not Elliot Vance Bell's gun. I am disappointed. I thought that you might have his gun and was excited about knowing where that Purdey was. Elliot Bell was always very good to me and I used to drool over the Purdey. I have shot it many times but never took it hunting. I was too afraid to. He was truly a great man. He was, in a way, partially responsible for Dewey losing the 1948 election to Truman. Everyone thought he would win easily including Dewey. Elliot told him to keep a relatively low profile and not touch on any controversial topics. It was his to lose and a slip of the tongue could spell trouble. Candidates can't do that today. In the meantime, Truman was everywhere doing his whistle stop tours while Dewey was kissing babies. Elliot was Dewey's campaign manager for his two successful runs for governor of New York. But he sure was wrong on the presidential election. Elliot never quite over Dewey not getting elected. Neither did my grandfather. They lamented it often even in their later years.

Dewey was so sure of election, that he put in a private air strip on the estate. Pawling was going to be his summer White House. It had two hangers and he built a log cabin with a dance floor behind the hangers. The airstrip is still maintained and is where I learned to fly when I was fourteen years old. The cabin burned down so we put a double wide trailer in complete with bar and bunk beds to sleep it off if someone got too lit to drive. I still use the property as if I owned it, hunting and flying from that airstrip.


I don't use the shells. I am saving them to pass down. They are great looking paper shells with roll crimp. I broke open one box to see what they look like. Very cool looking shells.

[Double Lab]

Back to the original topic. I consider small bores to be 28, 20 and .410. The 16 belongs with the large bore 12 and 10 as the 16 standard industry factory offerings are in 1oz. and it handles it very well although the recoil is punishing. When I want to shoot a "heavy" to me load I'll shoot a 1oz. load in a 12. It's much more efficient in the 12 than the 16.

[MD*GSP]

Don't know I'm qualified to weigh in but fwiw I've always been under the impression anything smaller than a 12 was considered small bore. Sorry for the poor timing : ) but what really grabbed my attention in this thread was mention of a nib Skeet Gun..are there pictures of that gun anywhere? Would love to see them if there are & couldn't find anything through the search function..

[C.O.B.]

Scott that NIB skeet gun went to a collector in North Carolina, I don't know if there are any pictures of it available now or not.

Tom the Purdey is way, way back in the safe. I'll be getting the grouse guns together pretty soon and I'll check it out. It's a long shot (esp from a medium bore) but I'll chect it out. The short RST's are pretty cool but I would imagine nothing compared to those vintage shells.