A visit with Lou

[todd allen]

Back when I was a kid, (mid 50s/60s) growing up on a farm, the old timers referred to any hawk circling above as a "chicken hawk".
They were commonly shot, presumably "for the chickens". The quail were in abundance back then, btw. Could be a coincidence. I don't know.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hodges

I do not know about the rest of the country, but here in New Hampshire our grouse population is directly effected each spring by just where the Moose walk.

Why's that Steve?





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[Steve Hodges]

Big feet that step on eggs, LOL

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

The results of tests on the various Parker barrel steels demonstrated that there were slight differences within the broader range of barrel steels. Those results were published in the Parker Pages and discussed here numerous times . I think this was about ten years ago that the old inaccurate suggestion that the barrel steels were the same was put to rest. I am surprised to see it surface again. There is always somebody who does not get the word.

The barrels were sourced from various manufacturers .

My memory is somewhat impacted by my age. I remember the article in Parker Pages now. I wish I could have remembered it when talking to Lou.

I now believe that the biggest contributor to the dimise of grouse in my area is probably predation. It is only in fairly recent history that we have coyotes and bobcats in our coverts. The hawk population is the highest it has ever been.

[Big D]

Predation levels is sort of a see-saw. If there are a lot of predators and not much game, the levels of predators will decline, as they go elsewhere where there is more food. As a result, food levels will again begin to rise.

[Tom Flanigan]

Airplane accidents are usually a series of events leading up to disaster. I believe that it is the same with the grouse’s disappearance in my area. There is no single event that caused their demise, but a series of events, when taken together, proved disastrous for the species.

However, I believe that the increase of predators in our coverts may be the leading factor, which in conjunction with other factors, spelled the end of grouse hunting. Given the many areas of great cover and feed in my area of the Hudson Valley and Connecticut, I see predation as the leading cause. Possum, racoon and fox are no longer hunted or trapped. New predators such as the coyote and bobcat now are prevalent in our coverts. Without contributing factors, I believe that we would still have grouse, albeit in smaller numbers, given the high number of predators.

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Harry Gietler

NO COINCIDENCE! IT'S A FACT!
First, they protected the KILLER Hawk's & Owls
Than they Released KILLER Coyote's--(1980)
NOW they Released KILLER FISHER'S--(2015)
NOW they are TALKING About Releasing KILLER WOLF'S (THEY May Have Already) THEY--who is THEY--THEY IS the D.E.C. IN New York State! (Game Commission)

Harry

But there are increasing numbers of killer predators in NYC that are protected and released and the overall population there continues to increase.

[mobirdhunter]

I've subscribed to Dale Rollins' monthly emails for some time. Dale is a biologist who has been studying quail for many years. I'm always interested to expand my knowledge of game birds and the environment. The link provided is Dale's monthly communication for this month, and it has some thought provoking information regarding predation. I work hard to keep and open mind and avoid using my personal observations as gospel on complex matters such as bird numbers, knowing that because I see something, does not mean my "personal empiricism" is accurate.

As with some many issues like this, we need more expansive thinking and open minds...but, also, action. None of this is easy.

https://mailchi.mp/cefae1744b33/rpqr...4?e=1c9b542a38

[Dean Romig]

That's some great information!





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

I've subscribed to Dale Rollins' monthly emails for some time. Dale is a biologist who has been studying quail for many years. I'm always interested to expand my knowledge of game birds and the environment. The link provided is Dale's monthly communication for this month, and it has some thought provoking information regarding predation. I work hard to keep and open mind and avoid using my personal observations as gospel on complex matters such as bird numbers, knowing that because I see something, does not mean my "personal empiricism" is accurate.

As with some many issues like this, we need more expansive thinking and open minds...but, also, action. None of this is easy.

https://mailchi.mp/cefae1744b33/rpqr...4?e=1c9b542a38

Gary: Dr Rollins has in hand the most on ground data base for quail management of perhaps anyone out there at this point in time. I respect his points. Dr N. Silvy was doing his PhD work at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale under Klemstra as was DR. D. Urban (a good friend, listed in Dr. Silvy's Bib.) while I attended there.

Given all of that.... I am going to side with Rollins. He is an in the field researcher not an in office researcher. Dirty hands and boots on the ground are the way to go.

It should be noted that managing quail in Texas whether it be the rolling Plains of "West Texas" or down in the quail country of the Rio Grande Plain its a different world from the 40+ inch per year stuff in our traditional South.

So, how does this apply to our grouse.... Well one must interpret the data and outcomes. One can say that managing habitat is managing habitat but that is not true. True, each animal needs food water and cover to survive but as we know there must be a relationship between them all and that includes what we call interspersion. Each of us knows from experience what seems to be ideal grouse cover. If the birds are there we are happy campers. If they are not we want to find a reason.

As a quail manager I can believe there is an over population of raptors just as much as there is an over population of coons and possums and skunks now that no one traps them any longer. However, there is still the thought that as stated says better habitat will decrease the impact of those predators. Guthery, Fred PhD (past Chair at Texas A&M Kingsville, Bollenback Chair in Oklahoma) studied the quality of nesting as it relates to number of nes clumps in grass nesting areas and found the more avail clumps to act as "dummy" nest clumps the better the nest survival. This is a small point but an important one.

We need to examine every portion of the needs and wants of our favorite bird whichever it may be and work to see that the management goals and prescriptions of the agency working fit with the most beneficial techniques for our birds for our area.

Just my thoughts.