L. C. Smith question

[William Woods]

Any of you historians know if an L. C. Smith manufactured in 1892, could be ordered as a live bird gun? No safety engraving on the top tang under the safety button.

This gun was orderd by a Mr. J. C. Acklin in 1892. I know he competed in some shooting events, but I cannot locate the little information I had on him.

Thanks.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by William Woods

Any of you historians know if an L. C. Smith manufactured in 1892, could be ordered as a live bird gun? No safety engraving on the top tang under the safety button.

This gun was orderd by a Mr. J. C. Acklin in 1892. I know he competed in some shooting events, but I cannot locate the little information I had on him.

Thanks.

William, you might post your question on the Smith Forum. I feel confident that a safety-less gun could be ordered at that time period, but cannot offer proof. Smith made its three-way safety for trap shooters and did so prior to 1900 if memory serves.

[Drew Hause]

No hits on Acklin in the Sporting Life archives, but there were limited trapshooting reports prior to 1895.

The answer is likely 'yes' as guns without safeties exist
https://www.facebook.com/groups/5693...8181019036677/

L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse and then Hunter Arms aggressively marketed Smith guns for Live Birds and Inanimate Targets as early as 1883 when Harvey McMurchy left Cincinnati for Syracuse.
Unfortunately is is unlikely that the existing shipping records from that date would document the request for no safety
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/conten...dule_id=245742

The "Combined Automatic and Independent Safety" was patented by Alexander T. Brown and Wilbert Smith in 1886 and available as a special order. It was standard on Hunter Arms Company guns from 1895 to 1902. Thereafter, it was available as an option until 1945, and is frequently found on pre-1913 guns.

Lots of information here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...c/edit?tab=t.0

[William Woods]

In trying to type a response, I get timed out before I can send.

Thanks Mr. Drew and Mr. Gary.

There is a Cody letter on the gun, with the Marlin letterhead.

[B. Dudley]

I would think it certainly could.

[todd allen]

I have an early Elsie (1890s) with a Trap Safety.
3 positions:
Forward - Automatic Safety
Middle - Fire
All the way back - No Safety
The butt plate is marked Trap Gun.
Chokes are:
Rt barrel real tight.
Lt barrel even tighter
Since there were no clay targets back then, I would have to assume pigeon gun.

[Drew Hause]

H. Gahn, of Meriden, Conn., patenting in 1874, his “Gyro Pigeon” target, shaped like a two-bladed propeller wheel.
Glass balls were introduced about 1877.
George Ligowsky's dish-shaped flying targets, or “clay pigeon”, as it was then called, was patented Feb. 24, 1880. The early clay pigeons and American clay bird were made of clay and baked; later targets being made of melted pitch, or asphalt, mingled with gypsum, and formed into moulds which was a much cheaper process.
Interesting stuff here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Q/edit?tab=t.0

[William Woods]

This is an A-1 grade Smith. The safety buttton is a simple cross line style that does not fit the rest of the fine engraving on the gun. The guy that currentlly has the gun states there is an additional hole and screw in the floorplate that does not match other Smith's. Thsi fellow seems to think the safety was added at a later date, and that the additional screw has something to do with attaching the safety. I do not have access to the shotgun so I cannot ask spouse to take pictures.

[Drew Hause]

1893 Chas. Godfrey catalog



$125 would be about $4,600 today

[William Woods]

Originally Posted by Drew Hause

1893 Chas. Godfrey catalog



$125 would be about $4,600 today

Thanks Mr. Drew.

Oddly, this gun has a straight grip, while the ad does not state that option. The guy that currently has the gun says that the grip is original, and numbered to the gun.

I had my doubts about the buttstock as it is very plain wood with a light finish. Someone had cobbled together a beavertail forend with checkering that did not match the checkering on the buttstock.

Years ago, Frank Finch said that the gun may be the first, or the first of that model, with a straight grip. The serial number is three digits.