Runge and possibly Del Grego records

[FewOldGuns]

Originally Posted by David Noble

Mr. Wade, could you please post a picture of the rib markings, especially the PEERLESS Steel part?

More bbl pics.

[B. Dudley]

You know that it is a gun that started out as a vent rib DHE and was later on customized and restocked by someone. It is what it is.

Tearing the gun apart to search for signatures and marks would only satisfy your own curiosity as to who did the work. And it is up to you if you want to mess around with that.

[David C Porter]

I knew the Pachmayr engravers & stockmakers during the period that they were doing Parker upgrades. Thie engraving & stock work is not up to that level.

[Bill Murphy]

The "T" marking on the barrel flat would indicate that your barrels were originally Titanic Steel, not Peerless. The rib markings are very well done, but not original Parker Brothers. Shelly Gitman commissioned Robert Runge to upgrade Parkers to have one of each grade and each gauge. John Davis's SAA upgrade is probably not a Gitman gun. I say that because his SAA upgrade is known to be in a private collection, and is likely the only one of that grade and type commissioned by Gitman. That gun and John Davis's gun are identical in engraving patterns. I have never seen a Runge gun with gold line inlays like Paul Wade's gun. However, the spurious marking are very high quality. What a great gun.

[FewOldGuns]

Originally Posted by Brian Dudley

You know that it is a gun that started out as a vent rib DHE and was later on customized and restocked by someone. It is what it is.

Tearing the gun apart to search for signatures and marks would only satisfy your own curiosity as to who did the work. And it is up to you if you want to mess around with that.

I get that. Any idea why it would have peerless bbls though? They match the description in the PGCA letter. That's the oddity that has me very curious and yes it is my curiosity only that I am trying to satisfy. But is also an altruistic quest - honoring the gun itself (which I guess is selfishly driven???).

For me, part of the fun of collecting is learning the history of not only the manufacturer and models but the history of a particular gun. I realize that it may never be known and at the end of the day it doesn't matter as I love the gun.

History gets lost - so I am trying to plug any gaps for the next generations.

This Parker is a beautiful, unique and mysterious gun and that is why I acquired it - I am very pleased with it and even if it was a complete fake (which isn't) I would still love it. I do believe it deserves some effort in investigating it's history. I plan to pass this on to one of my sons so I am not interested in the value or its purity per se.

Realizing I may never know, I still want to give it a good try, the particulars of this gun that are mysterious to me are:
1 - When did the upgrade occur?
2 - Who commissioned it?
3 - Who was it commissioned for?
3 - Why didn't the engraver sign this incredibly intricate and beautiful upgrade? (Who did it? Who did they do for?) - I know there are 2 previous owners at least.
4 - Why does it have peerless bbls? That is not standard for a DHE. (It does appear the bbls have been reblued by someone who knew what they were doing as mid rib has been strategically drilled for expansion)
3- Why has receiver been restamped A1S and grade 8. Is that typically done on upgrades?.

So my theories are:
1 - It was an upgrade by a large shop commissioned for a particular individual - Pachmayr or similar (most likely)
2 - It was an upgrade Commissioned by an individual in an attempt to pass it off as a A1S to unknowledgeable purchaser. (not likely but not out of the realm of possibility)
3 - Wild a$$ theory is that it was factory produced by Parker before the transition, someone at Remington decided to upgrade it for a particular person and it was done in house. (not likely but plausible) Any thoughts on that?

I sincerely appreciate any education or information anyone has to share. This is my first Parker and am enjoying learning about them. Truly remarkable guns.

[FewOldGuns]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

The "T" marking on the barrel flat would indicate that your barrels were originally Titanic Steel, not Peerless. The rib markings are very well done, but not original Parker Brothers. Shelly Gitman commissioned Robert Runge to upgrade Parkers to have one of each grade and each gauge. John Davis's SAA upgrade is probably not a Gitman gun. I say that because his SAA upgrade is known to be in a private collection, and is likely the only one of that grade and type commissioned by Gitman. That gun and John Davis's gun are identical in engraving patterns. I have never seen a Runge gun with gold line inlays like Paul Wade's gun. However, the spurious marking are very high quality. What a great gun.

Thank you! That solves the Peerless question. VERY MUCH appreciated.

Making progress!!!

[FewOldGuns]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

John Davis's SAA upgrade is probably not a Gitman gun. I say that because his SAA upgrade is known to be in a private collection. I have never seen a Runge gun with gold line inlays like Paul Wade's gun. However, the spurious marking are very high quality. What a great gun.

I have tried to find out what "SAA" means but can't figure it out - just makes me think of Colts What does that mean?

To my wild a$$ theory who else engraved for Remington? Runge is apparently eliminated from possibilities.

[Bill Murphy]

The SAA is the Parker Brothers catalog designation for the AA grade single trap gun. S for single, AA for the grade. According to the records and my recollection, only one SAA grade was made by the Parker Brothers and Remington. John Davis owns quite a piece of Parker and Runge history. Runge may or may not have engraved the "one" original Parker SAA gun.

[John Davis]

Bill, I believe there were two known SAA’s made. Always a possibility of more. My “SAA” started life in 1919 as an SC. It was upgraded in 1964? by Runge as signed and dated.

[edgarspencer]

Originally Posted by John Davis

Edgar, I believe it was but I don’t have absolute proof.

Thanks, John. Here is a picture of the shield on my Runge upgraded CHE28. I bought this gun from Pugs, a few years ago, and they told me it was a 'Gitman' gun. I have seen this same motif on other guns, pictured here, but not enough of the shield was shown to see the letters, but I believe it is unique to guns Shelly Gitman had commissioned. My gun is signed by Runge, and it also has the DelGrego stamp on the barrel flats