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1Alfred thanks for the info,particularly on the Engraver. Both shotguns have Either 25or25 1/2" bbl s. The twenty is marked I/M& the 12 is# marked IC/IM. Both shotguns are as new&unfired w/cases one for sure has been assembled looking @ the bbl. Lugs.Wasn't sure on the forum rules regarding pricing so I didn't want to ask as I was already posting about O/U's...lol. Once again thanks.