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I knew it, I never forget a gun Craig, especially one like that. I think Phil had 2 ounce loads of 7 1/2 that we were shooting dove with. It's not a gun you just throw up and shoot, that's for sure. No recoil at all. It's was a first for me, Dale and the late Dr. Spratling. I'll never forget that day. It's good knowing it remains in the PGCA family and has a good home!