One Less

[Harold Pickens]

Dean, they shoot print that in the Parker Pages.

[Dean Romig]

Maybe Harold.... We’ll see.





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Tom Flanigan

When I shot them in Saskatchewan I used a .270 with 130 grain bullets, my moose load. It really chews them up similar to your coyote. I used the 130 grain bullet because it shot best from my pre-64 model 70. Moose die rather easily and that 130 grain bullet was all I needed. They don't go far after being hit.

Tom:

Sorry I missed this. My load is a box load by Hornady 140 gr, Boat Tail Spire Point Interlock bullet. It has taken a bunch of coyotes and deer. Most all dead right there out of a New made Browning 1885 High wall.

[Stan Hillis]

I will offer another perspective, and not in the least to try to persuade those of a different opinion. I am a row crop farmer, have been my whole adult life. i grow corn, cotton, peanuts and occasionally soybeans. I do this to make a living, not for entertainment or sport. I own a good deal of the land I farm, but lease many other farms. The deer population in this part of GA is unbelievable to those who have never seen deer per acre this high. Much of the reason it is so high is the high quality food they have ......... my crops, and those of my neighbors.

I hunted deer as a sport for many years, but quit about 20 years ago. The numbers were such that it was not hunting anymore, but just shooting. Near the end it gave me as much pleasure as stepping on a cockroach. I ate what I killed, and enjoyed it, but no longer do (hunt for sport or eat them). Why? The sheer numbers of them have turned me against them in almost every way. They destroy many, many acres of crops of mine every year, costing me tens of thousands of dollars in income. Replanting is not an option. They will eat the replanted crop as fast, or faster, than the first. They are NOT a game animal anymore, IMO, but a nuisance. Vermin. No different from a rat that slips into the barn and eats the cow's feed. No different.

I can, and do, obtain depredation permits to kill them while they are about the business of eating my crops, during the growing season. I can't stop them all. But, I do my best. Coyotes do a better job of killing them than I ever can. A turkey hunter here found an occupied coyote den one spring and put a trail camera on it. The female 'yote brought 8 fawns in to her young to feed them that one spring. So ..........coyotes are my allies, and are protected on any land I have control over. Deer eat my crops and cost me thousands upon thousands every year, coyotes eat deer, so....... coyotes are my "friends".

I don't expect those of you who think you are doing the world a service by killing coyotes to understand. You shouldn't be expected to. You perceive that they are doing you a disservice by killing the deer you love to hunt. I don't expect a cattleman to change his mind either. I have seen, firsthand, what coyotes do to newborn calves. I'm just offering a different perspective. One man's meat is another man's poison.

SRH

[Harold Pickens]

Stan, that is a whole new perspective on coyotes. Certainly could not argue against that.

[Richard Flanders]

That is indeed a very interesting perspective that I have not heard before and, having been raised in farm country, much appreciate. Somehow, though, I just cannot imagine having too much fresh venison in my freezer! I think we should all show up en masse at Stans at some point, each of us pulling a small trailer or a pickup with a freezer and small Honda generator and have a cleansing deer drive.... all in the name of taking stress off Stan and his crops, of course!

[Tom Flanigan]

Stan, I can certainly appreciate your perspective. The oat farmers I know in Canada have the same perspective on the bears. Also, on the property I hunt in NY, corn used to be grown for silage for the cattle. The deer did tremendous damage so we got crop damage permits from the NY DEC to use in September. The DEC came out and viewed the damage then took a rough estimate of the deer per acre on the property (I don't know how they did it). We got permits for the excess.

I'd go out evenings and kill four or five from the fields and then call the game warden to pick them up at the barn. One day I asked him what he was doing with the carcasses. He told me that they take them to a dump. I never turned in another deer after that. I shot them but I butchered them all and gave most of the meat away. It was a real chore processing the number of deer we were shooting but I just couldn't see them going to waste.

I tested a lot of different calibers and bullets back in those days from the .222 to 30-06. In the end, my favorite caliber for field shooting was the .243 with 100 grain bullets. I use mostly a .270 with 130 grain bullet now for everything from deer to moose. The .243 is too light for game larger than a deer or bear.

We had very few coyotes back then unlike now. We have fewer deer on the property than we did years back, but they average bigger and are probably better conditioned. Coyotes might be the reason why. I hate the thought of them killing deer but they are probably beneficial to our herd.

[10 bore]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

I will offer another perspective, and not in the least to try to persuade those of a different opinion. I am a row crop farmer, have been my whole adult life. i grow corn, cotton, peanuts and occasionally soybeans. I do this to make a living, not for entertainment or sport. I own a good deal of the land I farm, but lease many other farms. The deer population in this part of GA is unbelievable to those who have never seen deer per acre this high. Much of the reason it is so high is the high quality food they have ......... my crops, and those of my neighbors.

I hunted deer as a sport for many years, but quit about 20 years ago. The numbers were such that it was not hunting anymore, but just shooting. Near the end it gave me as much pleasure as stepping on a cockroach. I ate what I killed, and enjoyed it, but no longer do (hunt for sport or eat them). Why? The sheer numbers of them have turned me against them in almost every way. They destroy many, many acres of crops of mine every year, costing me tens of thousands of dollars in income. Replanting is not an option. They will eat the replanted crop as fast, or faster, than the first. They are NOT a game animal anymore, IMO, but a nuisance. Vermin. No different from a rat that slips into the barn and eats the cow's feed. No different.

I can, and do, obtain depredation permits to kill them while they are about the business of eating my crops, during the growing season. I can't stop them all. But, I do my best. Coyotes do a better job of killing them than I ever can. A turkey hunter here found an occupied coyote den one spring and put a trail camera on it. The female 'yote brought 8 fawns in to her young to feed them that one spring. So ..........coyotes are my allies, and are protected on any land I have control over. Deer eat my crops and cost me thousands upon thousands every year, coyotes eat deer, so....... coyotes are my "friends".

I don't expect those of you who think you are doing the world a service by killing coyotes to understand. You shouldn't be expected to. You perceive that they are doing you a disservice by killing the deer you love to hunt. I don't expect a cattleman to change his mind either. I have seen, firsthand, what coyotes do to newborn calves. I'm just offering a different perspective. One man's meat is another man's poison.

SRH

I understand about the loss of income, Is the land posted ? Here in NH the F&G dept. wont give out permits to thin out the deer if the land is posted. They want the hunters to help control the deer problem, up here xmas tree farms take a pounding when bucks rub up the trees. You should have hunters come in to help thin out the heard.
scott

[Stan Hillis]

Tom, we are allowed to shoot them at night, under permit, because that is the most efficient way to cull. I use a .300 Blackout on an AR platform with an ATN thermal scope. Head and neck shots only. Here is a short video filmed through one of our scopes showing the neck shot efficiency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmuM5trgpL8&t=96s

Scott, the land is not posted, per se. In GA private land does not have to posted with "No Trespassing" or "No Hunting" signs to be considered posted. It is private land and it is understood that it is private unless one has written permission, on their person, to be there. I have hunters working at the problem. Problem is, very few will go to the effort to hunt if they can't have a chance at killing a big set of antlers. And, you don't kill old bucks by shooting the first doe that steps out.

It's a very big problem. The density per acre here is so high that I have actually let land go, and stopped leasing it to farm, because I'd lose $$$ on it every year due to deer predation. This may be hard to understand, but having a problem with feral hogs too, I'd take the hogs over the deer any day, if I could get rid of one or the other. I can put a pack of hog dogs on the sounder of hogs a couple times and those left will relocate themselves to another area. Deer won't leave until the last one is dead, and they often birth triplets here because the nutrition is so good.

SRH

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by scott kittredge

I understand about the loss of income, Is the land posted ? Here in NH the F&G dept. wont give out permits to thin out the deer if the land is posted. They want the hunters to help control the deer problem, up here xmas tree farms take a pounding when bucks rub up the trees. You should have hunters come in to help thin out the heard.
scott

The crop damage permits in NY, at least in the years we got them, were issued to the land owner to do with as he pleases. By law, we had to turn in each deer to the game wardens. I stopped doing that as I mentioned in another post.

Allowing hunting on the property might work and, then again, it may not. We considered it years ago but decided against it. The concern was damage to standing crops but the biggest issue was strangers on the land. The owner of the land and I both agreed that there was too much potential risk to opening the property. We have airplanes and farm equipment up there and turning strangers loose on the property to see all that was there wasn’t a good idea. We have had thefts over the years even though you have to enter the property on a long private dirt road and the airstrip and hangers are well back on the property. I lost my .243 field gun to theft.

We watch the property carefully, most days I am in the shop on the airstrip but people still sneak in. A few years ago I chased three guys who were deer hunting on the lower end of the property. They walked back to their car and then emptied their guns into the trees over my head. I could hear the slugs whistling. They were screaming F bombs at me. I had no idea who they were.

Permitting hunting might help solve the deer problem, but it could potentially open up other problems.