Poll....who is hunting with small gauge for up-land birds?

[Zacharysmith]

16's and 20's for me here in NH. Added a 28 to the collection this year and will hopefully be fit when October comes.

[John Davis]

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

[Battue]

Originally Posted by John Davis

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

[John Davis]

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

[Battue]

Originally Posted by John Davis

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

[C.O.B.]

Upland guns are special and there is no perfect gun except the next one or your buddy's gun that you covet.I'm a big fan of 16,20 and 28 and admit to owning more of them than I can shoot. My typical trip to the U.P. consists of 8-10 guns for the 5 weeks I'm there. This year will be different in that I'll be just taking long weekends but will alternate between guns and gauges so most get a turn.
My preferred barrel length is 26 and choked IC/M or SKT/SKT. I recently adopted a VHE 20 skeet with a factory vent rib which will get a work out.
I'll hunt a couple of times with a 12 but in my defense it's a British light game gun and I use RST 2 inch shells with 3/4 oz of 8's. Just like a 28.

[Mills]

Originally Posted by Rich Anderson

Upland guns are special and there is no perfect gun except the next one or your buddy's gun that you covet.I'm a big fan of 16,20 and 28 and admit to owning more of them than I can shoot. My typical trip to the U.P. consists of 8-10 guns for the 5 weeks I'm there. This year will be different in that I'll be just taking long weekends but will alternate between guns and gauges so most get a turn.
My preferred barrel length is 26 and choked IC/M or SKT/SKT. I recently adopted a VHE 20 skeet with a factory vent rib which will get a work out.
I'll hunt a couple of times with a 12 but in my defense it's a British light game gun and I use RST 2 inch shells with 3/4 oz of 8's. Just like a 28.

A friend bought a British 2" 12 which I helped him inspect. He is using it for Woodcock this upcoming season. I want to get a 1/2 frame 12 for my upland hunting arsenal

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Harry Neil

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

AAA is kinda fictitious as it’s only used at shoots with an exceedingly large number of AA shooters . And AAA to the best of my knowledge has always been 1 % point above AA so double AA would be 97.5 - 97.25 - 97 and 95.5 . Thirty years ago when I into skeet heavily the 12 was the same as now the 20 was 97-98 the 28 was 96.5 97.5 and the 410 was 94.5 95.5 with first numbers being minimum for AA and second number for AAA . I found AAA relatively easy at that time to attain a AAA average but I never could quite stay in 12 gauge AAA . But then again my 28 gauge average was usually above 98.25 most years with the 12 and 20 being slightly less but both still above 98 . FWIW the last years I shot the 20 in the 12 event and my average and number of 100 straights increased .

[6pt-Sika]

Man I if I keep hearing all this skeet stuff I’m going to end up sending a K-32 and a VH 12 to Kolar for full length fitted skeet tubes .

[24 grams]

Originally Posted by Harry Neil

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

Excellent point-counterpoint!