Why is a 12 ga Parker a "boat anchor" these days?

[edgarspencer]

Pre 1899 is definitely more desirable than post 1898. Cash and carry. No paperwork, no FFL, no record...

This is the case with Winchesters, Colts, etc.

That statement is absurd.
I am quite familiar with many advanced collectors of Colt and Winchesters. I am confident that none of them limit their interests to 'antique only' firearms.
No point in considering Henry's, and 1866 guns, or 1876 guns as none of them were made post 1898, however there were plenty of 1873, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894 and 1895 guns made well into the 20th century.
Anyone who even casually follows the results of nearly any good auction company today, is able to see countless numbers of guns selling well into six figures, with no correlation to the BATF determantion of antique status

But if presented two identical guns at similar prices, one being antique and the other not, I would definitely opt for the antique gun first.

This caveat does nothing to diminish the flaw in your first statement, other than to say YOU would 'opt' for the gun without paperwork.

[MrBojangles]

Originally Posted by edgarspencer

That statement is absurd.
I am quite familiar with many advanced collectors of Colt and Winchesters. I am confident that none of them limit their interests to 'antique only' firearms.
No point in considering Henry's, and 1866 guns, or 1876 guns as none of them were made post 1898, however there were plenty of 1873, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894 and 1895 guns made well into the 20th century.
Anyone who even casually follows the results of nearly any good auction company today, is able to see countless numbers of guns selling well into six figures, with no correlation to the BATF determantion of antique status


This caveat does nothing to diminish the flaw in your first statement, other than to say YOU would 'opt' for the gun without paperwork.

I don't think collectors of Winchesters and Colts limit themselves to only pre 1899 firearms, but there is definitely a premium for these vs a similar but post 1898 gun. About 20%. I know Winchesters and Colts far better than side by sides and this is nearly gospel.

[edgarspencer]

I don't think collectors of Winchesters and Colts limit themselves to only pre 1899 firearms, but there is definitely a premium for these vs a similar but post 1898 gun. About 20%. I know Winchesters and Colts far better than side by sides and this is nearly gospel.

Once again, I can't agree with you. You use words like "definitely" and "gospel" like there's no other opinion that matter's and that makes me suspect of your whole thought process. I have been collecting Colts, Winchesters, and Parkers, and ONLY those three makes for over 60 years. In my 72 years, I've met some of the best known collectors, and learned from each of them. Knowing what and how they have, and still do buy guns makes nothing but good common sense. There ain't no gospel according to anyone I know that says a pre '99 gun of equal condition is worth 20% more than a post '99 gun. Spend enough time behind your table at the Baltimore gun show, arguably the preeminent antique arms show in the east and you'll know this to be true.

[MrBojangles]

Originally Posted by edgarspencer

Once again, I can't agree with you. You use words like "definitely" and "gospel" like there's no other opinion that matter's and that makes me suspect of your whole thought process. I have been collecting Colts, Winchesters, and Parkers, and ONLY those three makes for over 60 years. In my 72 years, I've met some of the best known collectors, and learned from each of them. Knowing what and how they have, and still do buy guns makes nothing but good common sense. There ain't no gospel according to anyone I know that says a pre '99 gun of equal condition is worth 20% more than a post '99 gun. Spend enough time behind your table at the Baltimore gun show, arguably the preeminent antique arms show in the east and you'll know this to be true.

Spend time on the Winchester Forum and you will see I am correct. Hell, the Red Book of Winchester values differentiates from pre and post 1899 values. There was an uproar of sorts when it was determined that Madis' serial number charts included way too many Winchesters as antique and collectors paid a premium for post 1898 guns.

I've been to Baltimore several times.

Quality always brings a premium pre or post 1898.

[edgarspencer]

Madis' serial number charts included way too many Winchesters as antique .

Ancient news. a few models were off by a year

I've been to Baltimore several times..

As have I. This would have been my 25th anniversary had it not been cancelled.

Quality always brings a premium pre or post 1898.

At last you've said something I can agree with.

[MrBojangles]

Originally Posted by edgarspencer

That statement is absurd.
I am quite familiar with many advanced collectors of Colt and Winchesters. I am confident that none of them limit their interests to 'antique only' firearms.
No point in considering Henry's, and 1866 guns, or 1876 guns as none of them were made post 1898, however there were plenty of 1873, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894 and 1895 guns made well into the 20th century.
Anyone who even casually follows the results of nearly any good auction company today, is able to see countless numbers of guns selling well into six figures, with no correlation to the BATF determantion of antique status


This caveat does nothing to diminish the flaw in your first statement, other than to say YOU would 'opt' for the gun without paperwork.

Okay, have I proved that I am correct? https://winchestercollector.org/foru...esters/#p92001

[edgarspencer]

Okay, have I proved that I am correct? https://winchestercollector.org/foru...esters/#p92001

Haha. It said so on the internet, so it must be true. I'm only going by experience buying and selling for 60 years, Not trying to make me feel better about my old guns.
I would be happy to put 20% on some of my pre 1898 1894s if you've got the money. My wife says I have too many pistol grip takedowns with set triggers anyway. Make her happy.