So When is "Original" no longer Original?

[Setter Man]

Originally Posted by Greg Baehman

My definition of original means the gun retains the exact same finishes as it left the factory originally. If a Parker is changed in any way (i.e. refreshed, refinished, restored, etc.) regardless of who did the work - whether it be the factory or whomever, the gun is no longer original.

So my VHE 20/32 that was ordered as a 20/28 then sent back to Parker and refitted with 32” barrels would not be original?

Jay

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Jay Gardner

So my VHE 20/32 that was ordered as a 20/28 then sent back to Parker and refitted with 32” barrels would not be original?

Jay

IF the finishes are original to the gun, why in the world would this factory gun not be considered original?

[Setter Man]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

IF the finishes are original to the gun, why in the world would this factory gun not be considered original?

Exactly.

[B. Dudley]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

Thanks, Bill. So who might be on this list of "experienced Parker researchers?"

Has the Association ever offered authentication services at any of its annual meetings or other affairs. Seems like a PGCA authentication would be a good way to add to the coffers AND help out some of those Parker owners that have guns for which records are not available.

That is a very slippery slope that could come back to bite the organization which is why I would think it should not be done. IF it had ever been considered.
Especially if it was a fee based service.

At any event or gathering there are plenty of folks willing to lend their OPINIONS on guns and originality. In the end that is all it is.

[John Davis]

If you are trying to prove something that's not in the records, good luck with the "experts" opinion. At the end of the day it's just that, an opinion. I'm not a purest or an investor, so I try not to lose to much sleep over such things. I just buy guns I like or fit me, and then don't apologize for it.

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Jay Gardner

So my VHE 20/32 that was ordered as a 20/28 then sent back to Parker and refitted with 32” barrels would not be original?

Jay

Jay, I kind of figured someone might find an example that would prove my personal definition is flawed. It's hard to tell from your wording if your gun is now a 2-bbl. set or not with your use of the word refitted vs. a gun that was retrofitted with another set of bbls. If, it indeed is a 2-bbl. set, then of course it would would fit the definition of original--providing nothing was done to either set of bbls. or finishes to the gun in any way since leaving the factory. If, the original 28" set is missing and a new set of 32" bbls. was added at the factory, I guess it's whatever definition of original you subscribe to.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by John Davis

If you are trying to prove something that's not in the records, good luck with the "experts" opinion. At the end of the day it's just that, an opinion. I'm not a purest or an investor, so I try not to lose to much sleep over such things. I just buy guns I like or fit me, and then don't apologize for it.

John, Thanks for your response. I'm not trying to prove anything, and I agree with you about opinions -- we all have them, informed or otherwise (mine, I admit are probably not the best informed, but I've handled a Parker or two in 30-plus years of collecting, but in no way do I claim expertise). I, like you, am probably not what would be termed a purist, but I like the human nature of collecting...and how folks espouse their beliefs. I spent my career in art and I know a bit about authentication. It is a much different scenario than trying to fathom the vagaries of opinion. This question was brought on by reading another thread where the opinions expressed by contributors were, as is typical, all over the place.

I appreciated your comments, as I have all that have responded.

[John Davis]

Gary, I think you posted a great question. And as we've seen there's a number of ways to approach it. My response was directed more towards the idea that an "expert" opinion is going to prove anything. If it's not in the records, you are just guessing or hoping.

[Setter Man]

How bout this one. Apparently the gun was ordered by one customer, returned to Parker for credit, then sold to another customer but this time with 2-7/8” chambers. Original?

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Jay Gardner

How bout this one. Apparently the gun was ordered by one customer, returned to Parker for credit, then sold to another customer but this time with 2-7/8” chambers. Original?

Jay, original or not (and I think verifiably original), what a great configuration for a gun, and with wonderful dimensions. Gosh, if the factory refinished the gun or altered the chambers, how can that not be "factory?" I also wonder how many original owners of Parkers applied some sort of finish to the stock over time? Does rubbing a bit of linseed oil into the stock a hundred years ago change the originality (and could anyone really tell)? And if it was the 4th owner and only 30 years ago, does that change things? A special gun is a special gun.