BELGIAN GUILD GUN

[J. A. EARLY]

Drew,

Thank you so much for the information. It will go on the tag I keep on the gun.

The choke information is:

R: 18.3/18.5 then 17.6/18.4

l: 17.6/18.4


r: 18.5 mm = .728 18.3 mm = .720 so I am seeing .008 which is skeet
L:18.4 mm = .724 17.6 mm = .692 so I am seeing .032 which is I.M./light full

I measured .006 and .030 with my gauge, so obviously the choke in the right barrel was opened.



choke is stamped in front of each marking, except the 18.3/18.5

The 17.6/18.4 on each barrel are in line with each other. The 18.3/18.5 on the right barrel is in front of it.

Acier Special with a crown and ML below the crown to the left and right of each Acier Special on each barrel.

Thanks again.

p.s. For insurance purposes, what would anyone estimate the value of this gun? It will never be sold but will go to my oldest son who when he was a little boy was fortunate enough to spend time with my uncle.

[Drew Hause]

The choke and bore next to each other, followed by "CHOKE" was used until c. 1910 Jerry. The gun is probably therefore pre-WWI and I suspect the gun was re-proved prior to 1921, after the right barrel was slightly honed and choke opened.
Cornell Pubs also has a 1908 ML catalog reprint and the gun should be illustrated
https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns...hp?item_id=469

[J. A. EARLY]

Drew,

Thank you again. I ordered the catalog and hope to find this double in there. I always wondered about its history and you have told me more about it in a day than I or my uncle knew over the last seventy plus years the gun has been used by my family.

[Drew Hause]

Glad to help Jerry.
1897-1903 the Belgian makers even provided the load that should be used; another 12g Manufacture Liegeoise proved with Mullerite (the Lion over M) for a service load of 2.70 grams = 41.67 grains = 3 Dr. Eq. (42 grains) "E.C." No. 1 or "Schultze" with 36 grams = 1 1/4 oz. shot



Please let us know if you find the gun in the catalog.
Unfortunately, the market for nice vintage 12g Belgian doubles, even by a well known maker, is not good today, so it is hard to estimate value.

[J. A. EARLY]

Drew,

By the engraving and checkering pattern I believe this gun to be a Model 5580. There is a higher grade that looks similar, but neither has the same cut out in the back of the frame for the stock.

The catalog lists the chokes as left full and right cylinder, so the gun was opened in the right barrel before it left the factory. Apparently they bored both to full, marked the barrels, then opened it up to cylinder and marked the choke a second time.

Thanks again for your help.

p.s. Can I get someone who speaks French to translate all of it since I only translated the choke borings. Thanks.

[stumpstalker]

Until a French-speaking guy who knows European guns comes along, this is my ballpark effort:

[Hammerless Hunting Gun, Anson & Deeley type, Greenwood Street, Liege, Belgium]

Poids: [weight:] [as per three gauges offered]
eniron: [approximately]



[Proofed with nitro powder]

M.L. [Liege, Belgium- Firearms (brand)] Acier [steel] special: [Special Steel]

5580 – Special Steel gun M. L. full choke left barrel, cylinder right barrel, Greener’s patent treble wedge fast bolting system, English engraving [style?], “trempe jaspee” [stumped here: figured metal grip cap?? -- something aesthetic]

5580 E. – the same gun with automatic ejectors

5600 – as with 5580 –finished simpler, engraved screws, and rosettes, “trempe jaspee” [still stumped here: figured metal grip cap? -- something aesthetic] (Model 5600 is lower cost?, maybe due to no English-style engraving.)