How big is Ithaca NID 10 mag compared to a #3 frame Parker ?

[Mark Garrett]

The Mag frame is certainly longer .

[Bill Murphy]

"Looks like" doesn't cut it. Milton has a very curious mind, brings up some great ideas, but he needs to invest in a Vernier caliper and give up on the "Looks like". Parker made 3 1/2" chambered tens before the advent of the Super X loads. I have a #6 frame PH that letters as a factory 3 1/2" gun and I'm sure they made a few #3 frame 3 1/2" guns before the Remington era also. I'm not sure if my #6 frame ten PH predates the Super X loads. I have seen 10 gauge Damascus barrel English guns that went through nitro proof with modern 3 1/2" shells also.

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

"Looks like" doesn't cut it. Milton has a very curious mind, brings up some great ideas, but he needs to invest in a Vernier caliper and give up on the "Looks like". Parker made 3 1/2" chambered tens before the advent of the Super X loads. I have a #6 frame PH that letters as a factory 3 1/2" gun and I'm sure they made a few #3 frame 3 1/2" guns before the Remington era also. I'm not sure if my #6 frame ten PH predates the Super X loads. I have seen 10 gauge Damascus barrel English guns that went through nitro proof with modern 3 1/2" shells also.

I had one years ago because I had thought of sending the Zephyr to Briley for chokes and needed to measure the muzzle diameter to determine for thin walls or regular chokes .

I have seen English ammo catalogs that predate the 10 ga 3.5" Super X of the 1930s . They were 1900s or 1890s catalogs that listed the 10 ga from any length up to 3.5" . Actually They may have listed one longer than that .
I dont doubt that a #3 frame Parkers could handle it . The CG Bonehill I owned had 3.5" chambers though I only shot RST 2 7/8s out of it . The guy I sold it to ran alot of 3.5" shells and never had a problem. That was a heavy barreled gun to start with .

[Researcher]

I have a #6 frame PH that letters as a factory 3 1/2" gun

Sure that wasn't 3 1/4 inch? That is the longest 10-gauge cases I find being offered in the old ammunition catalogs. By 1910, UMC was no longer offering 10-gauge NPEs for smokeless powder longer than 2 7/8 inch and by the Rem-UMC 1918-19 catalog no 10-gauge NPEs were being offered longer than 2 7/8 inch.

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, you know me better than that. My PH Twist gun letters as 3 1/2". While you are researching the beginning of the Super X 3 1/2" ten gauge ammunition, I will dig out the date of the #6 frame PH manufacture and verify the chamber length. If it says 3 1/2", and if we are skeptical, maybe Chuck Bishop will confirm. I will post the serial number.

[Bill Murphy]

Serial number of my #6 frame PH is 118,498. Chuck sent me a letter indicating the 3 1/2" chamber. I'm sure he would confirm his research. It is a 1903 gun ordered by Iver Johnson, apparently, certainly, before the Western Super X 2 ounce loads. Dave has posted interesting information.

[Bill Murphy]

Parker Brothers posted maximum loads for their smallbore guns in the popular "Small Bore" pamphlet which were lighter than loads specified in orders for guns in the 1912-1918 era, which were 1 ounce loads. I have owned guns, 20 gauge 3" chamber guns, that were specified to shoot 1 ounce loads when PB didn't admit that they approved of such loads. They were #2 frame 20 gauges, but maybe some smaller frame guns were specified for 1 ounce loads, I don't know. Discussion continues.