churchill 25" Barrels?

[stumpstalker]

Originally Posted by Ed Blake

The key to success is, of course, the crazy socks and plus fours.

It could have been a picture of an American. In sneakers, dungarees and a wife-beater shirt.

[Kurt Sauers]

There are actually two I'm considering. Both at vintage double s. One is a Churchill, the other Rowland Watson

[Kensal Rise]

Either gun is superb.

But an original Churchill XXV is something to consider...

[B. Dudley]

A good friend of mine owns a Churchill XXV and is looking to sell it. He put it on my table at Ernies this past year and it was getting a lot of looks from attendees.

[Drew Hause]

Robert Churchill taking a high pheasant. He was a very small man, and note the fully extended leading hand



If you purchase the gun, use it, and nothing else, ALOT, before the season. Alternating with a longer barrel SxS (or the shame of a SA ) will not work.

[Tom Flanigan]

The fully extended leading hand is how I was taught to shoot. When I was learning to shoot, my grandfather told me to point to a tree. Of course my hand was extended. I didn't point at the tree with a bent elbow. The point was taken and I have shot that way since that day. One reason I don't like beavertail forends is that it hinders keeping my left arm extended. I also noticed in pictures that Wilbur Fiske Parker shot that way also.

[Richard Flanders]

There are only two books that one needs to learn how to or to improve how they shoot a shotgun - "Churchills Shotgun Book", either edition, and Bob Bristers "The Art and Science of shotgunning". All other shotgunning books and articles combined don't match these two in the quality and clarity of information. Once I learned and bought into the Churchill method I shot birds and clays very well, though I always held my muzzle a bit lower than in the picture from his book above. The other day while failing miserably at shooting lefty, I tried holding the muzzle a tad higher than in this picture and the rest was/is history and I smashed most every clay with two different guns after that, and it seemed effortless. As for the 25" bbls, my best grouse/woodcock gun is a 24" PHE 16 that works brilliantly in any situation in hvy cover or over pointing dogs on more open ground. 25" would be just fine for what they were intended for.

[Southpaw]

Richard I think what you described and stumbled into it and maybe on your own is the something called the Orvis Method or a Modified Churchill method. I think some shooting instructors at Sandonna and through other Orvis shooting schools coined the phrase and methodology for instinctive shooting based on improving Churchill. They also did say Churchill method when employed properly was developed for instinctive shooting but was supposedly taught or applied wrongly. Tom Deck wrote a book about it and they called it the "Orvis Guide to Gunfitting" First half of book was dedicated to methodology and then they talked about gunfitting. Chapter 6 about traits of top shooters was great as well.

Essentially the Modified Churchill has the gunstock ever so slightly tucked under arm and gun tilted up like at a 35 to 45 degrees with muzzle positioned a few inches lower than eye level but in site view periphery. Stance is important as well. Your arms are extended a little more but you can find a comfortable position so its natural. As explained to me the reason the barrels are held higher than typical Churchill was to reduce muzzle movement. Its also natural for that barrel to be slightly lined up and pointing toward intended target and proper setup for consistent gun mounting. Instead of moving muzzle all over the place the eye, gun and body are all aligned toward moving with the target. When done correctly your instinctively already pointing and moving with the target and all you have to do is raise gun to shoulder and shoot.

Anyway its a great read and I refer back to it every year before hunting season and try to always work the footwork concepts in when SC shooting. There are some other methods that others have developed as well that build off of this.

A few years back another shotgun shooting instructor explained why to develop that thousand yard stare when focusing on targets at a distance instead of focusing on barrels. He was talking more about physiology limitations. Seems the eye pupil for targets at a distance is relaxed and when focusing on objects closer your eye muscles tense up. It takes a few more milliseconds for your eyes to relax to clearly see those distant targets. If your looking at target then focusing on barrel and aiming and then trying to allow your eyes to relax to see target again your going to be behind target and then rushing herky jerky to catch up.

Anyway its all good stuff if find something that works for you. Same thing as swinging a golf club.

[Jeff Christie]

My father used the Ithaca SKB 20 ga with 25" barrels and English grip for the last 25+ years of his hunting life. He used it primarily on tough mean Iowa roosters. He killed a LOT of them. He loved it. It is not as elegant as a true Churchill but it is true to the concept.