Kent Bismuth in 12 gauge Trojan

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Craig Larter

Why not purchase RST bismuth with pressure and velocity ideal for vintage guns. No worries.

Better yet, why not learn to reload and control every variable yourself; shot weight, velocity and pressure.

[Scott Chapman]

I have a MEC 500 and have found a load for AA hulls, RP12 wads, 1 1/4 oz bismuth and longshot powder at 1250 fps. Listed at 7500 psi. I'll have to set it up!

[Cold Spring]

Many seem to have forgotten that the 12 ga/1-1/4 ounce so-called “high brass” progressive load was the standard over many decades in all manner of steel-barreled shotguns for ducks, geese, pheasants, turkeys, foxes, etc. Yup, 1-1/4 ounce of lead shot at 1330 speed.

So, other than the shot material, what’s different about the ballistics of the new Kent Bismuth load that was cited in the first posting here?

[Tom Flanigan]

Yes, the 12 bore 1 ¼ oz load at +1300 fps was “standard” for many years. That is why you see so many vintage guns that saw a lot of service with cracks behind the tang, some small and some large. Try finding an L.C. Smith that was used a lot without cracks behind the lock plates. Some is due to poor design but heavy loads exasperated the situation. I have repaired cracks in many Parkers around and behind the tang. We have more information now and know more than our predecessors who pounded those guns with heavy loads. Now years later, we are privy to the results of the effects of those loads. We can learn from history and not continue to make the mistakes of the past. Virtually every Parker I own that has seen a lot of service is cracked behind the tang. And over the years, I have repaired many others guns with the same issue. I don’t believe 1 ¼ oz loads at +1300 should ever be used in a vintage gun, some of which are over 100 years old. It makes no sense to do so.

[todd allen]

All these years have taught me this. When shooting a SxS, go with the lightest load that gets the job done.
One ounce at about 1150 fps, or so, should be your benchmark. 1 1/8 oz should be considered on the heavier side. 1 1/4 oz should be your max. The reloading bench is your friend, if you're going into the heavier loads. First, find out how a 1 oz. load works for you, and be prepared to be amazed.
The beauty of a well crafted, good handling side by side, is to run loads through it that compliment the concept. Otherwise, get a Benelli autoloader.

[Tom Flanigan]

I have to say Amen to that. I have extensive game shooting experience over 55 years. I carefully pattern all of my guns and have tested different loads on game, most notably on ducks and geese on the breeding and staging grounds of Saskatchewan over many years. My conclusion from all my experience is that sensible loads are best, by far. The 1 oz. 12 bore load, as an example, is a wonderfully effective load that patterns extremely well. I would not feel handicapped in the least with that load on ducks as long as the range is kept to around 35 yards or a bit more. Many would be amazed at just how effective and efficient that load is.

I use the old pigeon load on ducks, geese and turkeys because I like the denser patterns of the 1 1/4 oz load at 1200 fps on geese and ducks to 45 yards. But I would feel very comfortable if I was forced to use only the 1 oz. load. I'll be frank, it is my opinion that the 12 bore 1 1/4 oz load at 1300+ is an abomination in a vintage double. Strong words, but my extensive experience backs up my opinion.

[Cold Spring]

This must be our age of enlightenment …. well I'm so happy to learn that old time serious duck hunters like Buckingham, Sheldon and Askins got it all wrong, using 1-1/4 and 1-3/8-ounce heavy progressive loads when ducks wouldn't work the decoys and taking longish shots over the water and against the sky, both where it's so hard to estimate actual distance. How many can resist that temptation nowadays? Those I named and others of great experience must have just plain fell for the hype in all those long range tech articles by professional ballisticians and were duped by adverts by the likes of Western, Ajax and Peters.

Good to know that some of you have the skill to center punch ducks flying at different speeds, distances and varying angles with modern efficient loads. Great! Good shooting! Me, I often can't do that and might hit the bird with the fringe of the pattern. I always liked that saying about the difference between 1-ounce and 1-1/4-ounce ….. "when the gun goes bang that extra 1/4-ounce has to go somewhere".

[Craig Larter]

I have been hunting ducks for decades going back to the lead days. In my experience the best load I have ever shot for ducks is 1 3/8oz Kent TM at 1350fps at over 10000psi. Just for my own concern for my vintage doubles I have developed a 1 1/4oz TM load at 1200fps at less than 6000psi for late season mallards and blacks. I figure why take a chance shooting hot loads. That being said I have shot hundreds of ducks with 1 1/8oz of bismuth. Most important in duck hunting is having a well trained retriever.

[William Davis]

While I believe in mild loads Bismuth is not a dense as lead and looses velocity faster, may be a point for higher initial velocity. Having said that Vintage SXS Gun always better to shoot lower recoil and no doubt low recoil facilities hits.

William

[Drew Hause]

Turn-of-the-century Live Bird loads were usually 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dram Eq., or more; Sporting Life, Dec. 4 1897
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrar.../SL3011024.pdf
J.D. Gay...used a Parker gun, 4 drams Hazard “Blue Ribbon” (Bulk) smokeless, in Leader shells, a Winchester factory load.

In the 1927 Western Cartridge Co. advertising flyer for the "Super-X Long Range Load" by Capt. Chas. Askins, the 12 Gauge Duck Load is described as 1 1/4 oz. with 3-1/2 Drams (Dupont Oval) with a muzzle velocity of 1400 fps (modern numbers are measured 3 feet from the muzzle and would be about 1330 fps) and a breech pressure of 3-3/4 tons or just below the current SAAMI 12g maximum of 11,500 psi.

And a steady diet thereof in a 100 year old gun may do this





So it would seem reasonable to be proactive and glasbed or reinforce the head of the stock in some way before using boomer loads

Staple and fresh acraglas



or the Parker "dumb-bell" wood insert courtesy of Dean