Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge? - Page 6

Hammer Fan · 08-27-2010, 12:15 PM

I think the thing that people are having tunnel vision on, is that if the law was overturned, the only 8 gauge guns that are going to be used are the fine old Parkers...etc. that they happen to own right now. I think overturning a law like this is going to have consequences not many people are thinking about.

Other "primitive" seasons have been started with the best of intentions over the years, and IMHO are nothing like their original intentions. Look at the improvements over the years in archery equipment after the introduction of bow hunting seasons. An even bigger difference can be seen in the so called "primitive" muzzleloader seasons. The technology in the firearms is light-years ahead of when many of muzzleloader seasons were introduced years ago. The differences between a modern inline muzzleloader and a traditional flintlock or percussion rifle is like comparing a Model T to a Porsche 911.

I guess my only point is that if there is a dollar to be made, a shotgun manufacturer will develop a 8 gauge pump, that can throw a 90% pattern of 3 oz. of #6 tungsten shot at 80 yards. That is a big difference to what any of those old Parkers can do right now. I for one think that is going outside of what any of the supporters on this thread are comfortable with in supporting the use of 8 gauges. I for one think this is going beyond the area of fair chase. Just my two cents, not sure if anyone else will agree with me.

Opening Day · 08-27-2010, 04:01 PM

Well said Forest and I totally agree

Ray Masciarella · 08-27-2010, 05:18 PM

The firearm technology point is new to this thread. No doubt Forrest is correct about advances in bows, muzzleloaders and shotguns. Folks are even shooting rifles at 600-1000yards tho that is not really new (ask the buffalo). I wonder if there are any studies to look at. I have noticed an yearly increase in the turkey, deer, hog populations around here. It doesn't appear the advances in weapons have hurt them them much. There are more then ever.
However, I still don't think it has anything to do with fair chase if they can be shot with a rifle anyway. A lot fairer to shoot at a deer with an 8 ga then my Weatherby .300 mag. I think sportsmen can decide for themselves what challenges they want. It's why I stopped long ago hunting deer with a .300 mag-didn't find much to it.

Double Trouble · 08-27-2010, 06:15 PM

Very true, Ray !

I will never look down on someone who hunts deer with a scoped rifle (hell, my pre-64 M. 70 was my best friend for many seasons !), but now, I personally enjoy hunting with vintage guns. (My goal this year is to take a deer with my (ca. 1830) model 1816 Springfield musket (69 cal smoothbore, converted to percussion during the 1850's). The gun's a beast ! Only two things need to be mastered to shoot her well: consistent "sight picture" (like an old Parker, she only has a front sight - no rear sight) and overcoming the HORRIBLY HEAVY trigger pull (apparently, flintlocks worked best with STOUT main springs).

Any deer within 50 yards will be mine !

Ray Masciarella · 08-27-2010, 07:17 PM

John, now that sounds like the way to go. I would't want to be a deer on the wrong side of a .69 cal. That has to pack more punch then the .300 mag-at least at 50 yards. Good luck!!!

Milton Starr · 08-27-2010, 08:49 PM

I wouldnt care if they made more mnodern 8 ga if that what it takes to start making them again so be it i say . i would love a benelli semi auto 8 ga .then a tradition sxs .they are wanting to ban lead nation wide already . so people who dont want to use high density ammo like 5-10$ per shell will need a good patterning steel shot shell that hills hard . Like a 10 ga 3.5 with 1 5/8 bbb or t shot for turkey,coyote , other game .i know 8 ga ammo is probably about 15-20$ per shell but im speaking as if they made a modern 8 ga i doubt it would be much more than 10 ga ammo.you can fit many steel large pellets in modern shotguns shells like bbb,T, and F shot to get a good pattern like it would if you loaded it in a 8 ga less cripples i would think .

Ray Masciarella · 10-07-2010, 09:52 AM

I am pleased to advise that The Florida Admin Code only prohibits the use of shotguns larger then 10 ga for taking migratory birds. A little hard to figure out cause the Reg Handbook doesn't clearly address the issue. You have to dig into the code itself to find a clear answer.
Anyway, now I need to find a 8 ga to turkey hunt with. Of course, now that I'm looking for one they are nowhere to be found. Pugilisi had some on his site but they disappeared over night! Julia had two but I didn't want to take the chance they weren't shootable. Anyway, I'll find one sooner or later.
Question: Is there anything I should look for out of the ordinary? ie is the min barrel thickness different? I have to find one I can shoot. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks, Ray

TARNATION !!! · 10-07-2010, 10:20 AM

Ray: Session 3 Lots 976 and 977 at little John's coming up. The underlifter is pretty and the hammerless looks great. Both in 8 gauge. Wonderful looking guns. Opening bidl already set at 3+K$$ Where it goes, who knows

Direct link to the page.

They also have .410 16 and 12's

Enjoy.

Jack

MarketHunter · 10-07-2010, 01:19 PM

I've pretty well sworn off posting on the forum but will chime in on this one.

To Forrest:

The USA isn't the whole world despite what people seem to believe. The gunners in the UK are perfectly within their rights to use shotguns larger than 10 gauge for waterfowling, puntgunning is even still legal there. The waterfowl populations on that side of the water have seemed to survive just fine even with these guns firing a them for the past 200 years.

The ammunition is expensive, the guns are expensive, they're heavy and hard to use. Most guys use plastic automatics for waterfowling there just like they do here. If big guns were made legal again in the US (which they never will be) there would be a few people who would take them up but not very many.

There was a time before steel shot when even the magnum 10 gauge was almost a thing of the past. I knew hundreds of goose hunters growing up in Southern Illinois and the guys who regularly used 10 gauge guns could be counted on one hand. They did gain some popularity again when steel came in but have fallen off in use somewhat since the introduction of the 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge.

Large bore shotguns aren't a threat to fair chase, the gun companies wouldn't all jump on the band wagon and start making them or the ammo to use in them. Think about this, when lead was legal and they were at their most effective, how many gun companies produced a 10 gauge gun after WWII? Other than the Spanish doubles and O/U's that were imported, I can only think of one, the Ithaca Mag 10. If everybody wanted/wants to shoot big bore shotguns why weren't they more popular?

And as far as somebody working up a gun that could throw a 90% pattern at 80 yards, how many guys do you know who could make a gun like that work for them? Long range shooting is for the specialist. I'm as avid a waterfowler as I know and even I with my magnum 10 gauge won't hardly take a shot outside 50 yards because I know I can't hit the birds that far away. There aren't but a handful of men in the US who could use a gun like that to it's full effect. Even if somebody made it what threat would it really be?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, I'm back into my non posting mode.

Destry

Ray Masciarella · 10-07-2010, 02:09 PM

Jack: Thanks. I did see them the other day. Barrels cut on hammer gun. Too bad cause it looks like a nice gun. Not many photos of the other. Says pitted. 2 Frame? Doesn't sound right. Hard to buy at auction cause you can't really tell what your getting. I'll have to keep looking.

Destry: Amen!