Old Ammo

[Researcher]

When the 28-gauge was first introduced in North America in the Parker Bros. doubles and the Remington Arms Co. singles, the "standard" load was 1 3/4 drams equiv. and 5/8 ounces of shot in a 2 1/2 inch case. However, virtually from the get go, the longer 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge case was available from the ammo companies. But just like the longer shells in larger gauges, back prior to WW-I, the longer shells only got more and better wadding from the ammo factories, not a heavier payload. In his 1910 book The American Shotgun, Chas. Askins, the elder, writes of handloading 3/4 ounce loads in 2 7/8 inch cases for his 6 3/4 pound, 30-inch barrel Parker Bros. 28-gauge. The 2 1/2 inch 5/8 ounce load remained the "standard" 28-gauge load until 1932 when Western Cartridge Co. brought out their Super-X 28-gauge in the 2 7/8 inch case with a 3/4 ounce load and a max charge of progressive burning powder. The other ammo companies soon followed suit. The introduction of this more powerful 28-gauge shell caused Ithaca Gun Co. to begin cataloging 28-gauge NID doubles again. Ithaca had quit cataloging 28-gauge doubles with the introduction of the NID in 1926, and its availability in .410-bore. They did make NID 28-gauge guns between 1926 and 32, but they were not catalogue items.

The Winchester Model 12 wasn't introduced in 28-gauge until 1937, and it was introduced chambered for 2 7/8 inch shells. Shortly after WW-II the ammo companies standardized the 28-gauge shells at 2 3/4 inch and later 28-gauge Model 12s were chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells. Since then various ammo companies have been stuffing 7/8 and even a full ounce in 2 3/4 inch 28-gauge shells!

Our good buddies at RST are making delightful little 2 1/2 inch 28-gauge shells again.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Our good buddies at RST are making delightful little 2 1/2 inch 28-gauge shells again.

I'm in complete agreement with that statement Dave - I've bought several flats of their 28 ga. loads and love 'em.

Great post - thanks Dave.

[ch]

Mark,

Do collect cartridges? Whats the headstamp on the 50 3 1/4? ch

[Autumn Daze]

A little "Off Topic" here but I think we need to give correct information. The Model 12 in 12 gauge was introduced in 1914 not 1919 as previously stated. Both the 16 and 12 were introduced in the same year.

[Old and Reliable]

The Model 1912 was introduced in 20 gauge with 25" barrel in 1912- the Model 1912 in 16 and 12 gauge was introduced in 1914- In 1912 the 20, 16 and 12 gauge Model 1912's (nickel steel barrels) became known as the Model 12- WRA saved a few pennies by eliminating the 19- same gun, same perch belly stock in the field grades (until 1935)-- Nickel steel was still the stamping until about 1933, when Winchester proof Steel (AISI 4140) replaced it, after the Fubar with the stainless barrels-

The 3" Mag M12 came out in 1935, and the first year for the M12 in 28 gauge was 1937- Not sure, as I have about as much interest in .410 shotguns as I do kissing Monica Lewinski at the next Veteran's Day Blast at the Polish Falcon hall in Cicero, IL- but I believe the M42 came out in about 1933- Tommy C. Johnson and Wm. Roehmer (who help[ed design the Model 21) developed that shotgun--

If I mislead anyone interested in either Model 1912's or Model 12's, my apologies- but at least I spell "Murphey" as Murphy- and to answer the ? on the error in the Madis book- "The Winchester Model Twelve 1 of 1000" it is, like the Murphey/Murphy spelling thing, that sorta error-see pg. 148- the blonde Lady actress with a M12 much like my 1948 Pigeon Grade Trap- her name is Ann Sothern"- not Southern- as the great Casey "Stinky" Stengel once said- "Hey, you can always look it up in da book" and I did- Maybe Mr. Madis has British ancestry- the Limeys are always adding an extra "u" here and there- honor becomes honour- etc- who knew??

[Roundsworth]

Calvin, the headstamp is 'ELDORADO / 50 SHARPS'. I collected for 35 years and gave it up. My WRA Co. collection had some gaps that cost many hundreds of dollars to fill. The last one I bought was a 40-60 Colt for $200.00. I sold them all and made a nice profit. I started back recently with shotshells. Specifically, Winchester, Remington, UMC, and Eley-Kynoch. Paper and all brass only. I kept the 50 Sharps for size comparison.

[Bill Murphy]

So, Richard, tell me about the #5 engraved 28 gauge solid rib pigeon grade. Was it an original factory engraved gun? How did you document it? How about the similar Model 42? How did you document that one? Were they Ulrich engraved guns or later?

[C.O.B.]

Bill, The M12 and M42 were engraved in a std Win #5 pattern when compared to the engraveing patterns listed by Winchester. The M42 was undoubtly restocked as it had (so did the M12) wood that was to die for.

I doubt they were factory original as I never saw anyplace where they were signed. this was almost 20 years ago so memory fades. They were nice guns upgrades or not and I wish I had them back. I came across the name of the person who bought the M42 the other day maybe I'll give him a call when the bank fills back up. That 101 3 bbl set would be nice to have back as well.