Rare BHE .410 4/0-frame sighting - Page 9

Bill Murphy · 01-01-2016, 09:58 AM

Sisley created a little confusion when he used the same production total, 33, for two entirely different guns. In my opinion, the 33 DHEs were probably one barrel set .410s on the 00 frame. The second 33, again in my opinion, refers to the "finished" BHE 0000 frame guns. I think I made an error in my comments on page 3 of this thread. I think Sisley was probably correct in stating that 133 0000 frame .410s were started.

Wild Skies · 02-11-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read somewhere that the dimension between firing pin centers of the 0000-frame and the 000-frame are exactly the same and the only thing that makes it a "0000-frame" is the number of zeros stamped on the lug.

It's reported in The Parker Story that the distance between the firing pins of a 000-frame Parker is 13/16", it has also been stated (but not verified) that a 0000-frame Parker Reproduction has this same dimension between the firing pins. Well, on the net today I just happened to come across a couple of pics of a 000-frame Parker and it got me to wondering whether or not they are the same? Take a look at these pics and compare the little nuances and differences . . . the 1st is a 000-frame Parker, the 2nd is a 0000-frame Repro, the 3rd is the Parker again and the 4th and 5th pics are the Repro again. There is a step down of the barrels on a 000-frame Parker which the 0000-frame Repros do not have and it appears that the Repro barrels are more internal to the frame than the 000-frame Parker. What conclusions can we draw from this? It could be: A) The pin separation is not the same, or: B) the frame dimensions across the watertable at the breech and hinge of the Repro are greater than the 000-frame Parker. What do you think? Anyone have 0000-frame Repro that they can measure to verify?

Bill Murphy · 02-11-2017, 05:36 PM

What many collectors and researchers don't realize is the we are not comparing the 000 frame original Parker .410 frame with the 0000 frame Repro frame. The elephant in the room is the OO frame Repro frame, which is the frame that most .410 Repro Parkers are built on. The 0000 frame Repro is nothing like any other Parker frame, even though frames marked 0000 are incorrectly identified as 0000 frames, they are not, they are Repro 00 frames made for the 28 gauge Repro. The Parker Repro was never made on a 000 frame, no, never. The .410 Repro was made either on the 00 frame or the rare and unusual 0000 frame.

Dean Romig · 02-11-2017, 05:51 PM

I think the thing we can take from this is that comparing a 000-Frame Parker .410 to a 0000-Frame Repro is exactly like comparing apples to oranges. Bill said it best though.

.

Bill Murphy · 02-11-2017, 05:52 PM

It's finally time to measure the firing pin separation on the real 0000 frame Repros. I have done it but another measurement would be nice to confirm.

C.O.B. · 02-11-2017, 06:01 PM

I think trying to compare the reproduction to an original Parker is akin to comparing a CSM Fox to a Philly gun. The repro and the CSM guns are both excellent choices BUT there not the original manufacture and therefore not the same.

MD*GSP · 02-11-2017, 06:06 PM

Can anybody state w/fair certainty that the firing pins themselves are exactly the same diameter on all Repro's?

If so, the answer is found by scaling the photo..

Bill Murphy · 02-11-2017, 06:39 PM

It's finally time to measure the firing pin separation on the real 0000 frame Repros. I have done it but another measurement would be nice. As I recall, it is the same as the original Parker Brothers 000 frame. I may be mistaken.

Wild Skies · 02-11-2017, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

The elephant in the room is the OO frame Repro frame, which is the frame that most .410 Repro Parkers are built on.

Are you sure about that?

"Finally, the factory started 133 .410s on the tiny 4/0 frame. They completed 33 of these, and that's when production ceased. . . . As for the 100 partially made .410s on the 4/0 frame, Jack Skeuse continues to build as time and experienced gunsmiths permit."--Nick Sisley, Shotgun Sports Magazine Jan/Feb 1996

Bill Murphy · 02-12-2017, 10:34 AM

At the time, Sisley's statement was correct. There were more than a few real 0000 frames unfinished at the end of production. Many of these frames were engraved on the aftermarket, some under the direction of the Skeuse family. Although the 000 frame Parkers and the real 0000 frame Repros had similar pin separation (as I recall), the frame treatment and maybe some exterior dimensions were different.