Parker Reproduction as Curio or Relic

[Bill Murphy]

Jay, what was your interpretation of a C&R qualified weapon?

[Setter Man]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Jay, what was your interpretation of a C&R qualified weapon?

Typical Fed Regulation; very confusing. I can't tell you what is a C&R but I'm very confident that a pre-64 M70 and a Parker Repro aren't and I'm not about to risk money and my firearms to find out.

"Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA."

I would argue that a pre-64 is a modern firearm regardless of its age and, as such, does not constitute a curio or relic, as the same firearm is still in production. This really isn't a fight worth fighting and the potential downside is far greater than the upside of being able to ship without an FFL. But hey, I'm sure that some of the money spent on attorneys to argue the point will be well spent by your attorney. on Parkers.

Bottom line: if I were a dealer I would not ship a M70 or a Parker Repro to a C&R license out of prudence. Last thing I want to do is get into a pissing contest with the BATF.

[edgarspencer]

I don't know what is so confusing. At a minimum, a Pre-'64 Model 70 is 52 years old. From a lay person's perspective, it doesn't really look any different than any nice '03 sporter, built in the teens.
NFA firearms are an entirely different kettle of fish, and are regulated to the nines. A Winchester Model 70, regardless off it's year of manufacture, hass never been an NFA firearm.

Model 70 Bolt action rifles may look modern, but they are treated no differently than the model '94 Lever Action, or the Model 12 Pump shotgun. The date of Manufacture is the sole determining factor in BATFE's classification.

The following two pages are taken from the most recent Carol Watson Catalog. Carol Watson is an FFL Licensee, and, additionally, is a California gun dealer. Every gun they sell is clearly identified in their sales catalogs as ANTIQUE, C&R, or MODERN.
Look at item No.187: Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Bolt Action Rifle It is clearly identified as C&R
Look at item 192: Post-64 Winchester Model 70 Bolt Action Rifle It, too is classified as C&R. Why? Read the description, where it says Mfg'd 1965. This auction was two weeks ago. Therefore the gun is 51+ years old. CWOC Auction Company has been around a long time. They have attorneys on staff, and are not about to risk their FFL.
I could pull out page after page, showing Model 12 Pump guns, Model '94 Lever guns, and plenty of others manufactured both older and younger the fifty years, and each gun will be accurately designated.

[edgarspencer]

Sorry about that second page

[George M. Purtill Member #28]

I think we all agree that gun laws are inconsistent, mostly useless and maddening. I have a C&R and I am happy when it is useful. When it is not, like buying a Repro, I use my FFL dealer, He doesn't even charge me the $25 he could because I buy other stuff from him. So I bring him the Italian jug wine he likes and he tries to refuse it. Its a silly ritual we go through.
But this fight is not worth it.
I live in the state that invented Sandy Hook.
Every time they want a new gun law in Connecticut, they march out some mothers and elementary school kids and BINGO its a done deal.
We just got another one this week.

[edgarspencer]

By Themselves, the Federal laws have remained consistent for years. Where the confusion comes in is when states, Like New York, and their "Safe Act" enter into the equation, either contradicting the federal law, or adding language to it to make their own more stringent.
Virginia Law now will not allow an VA FFL dealer ship OUT a gun to a C&R, either within the state or to another state, and regardless of the recipient state's laws. Anything bought in VA must be done through a 4473. If VA ships to NY, you'll still need to fill out the 4473. If I have a VA dealer ship to me in CT, I may be able (Not having done it since the new CT laws, I'm not sure) Purchase it with my C&R, but then still have to fill out the States own bs paperwork.
With the limitation on buying, then reselling placed on the C&R, the record keeping requirements (keeping a 'book', and keeping up to date) and fewer opportunities to benefit from direct shipments, I personally am beginning to wonder if there are any real benefits left for the C&R licensee.