Very Cool Parker History

[mike corley]

I've had the same thought for the last 2 weeks. Don't understand why a woman who could own Parker would buy a VHE,but she did. That's why I think she was wanting to learn or something and just swung by the store and picked up one that the salesman recommended maybe? When I saw that in the Parker book it made me wonder if the guns were ordered together.

[mike corley]

Originally Posted by John Campbell

No disrespect intended, but it seemed a bit unusual to me that Ms. Astor would purchase a V Grade Parker. The Astor family could buy the whole Parker company with pocket change. Perhaps her intent was to "trade up"?

But it 's all speculation unless you do the research...

What do you mean by "trade up"?

[Quail1]

Invincible,AAH,AH,BH,CH,DH,GH are all higher grades. More engraving, nicer wood.
A VH is a relatively "plain Jane" to the higher grades of finish and craftsmanship.
Go to the home page and view "Parker grades".
Mike, are you sure it is a VHE? It looks to me like extractors, not ejectors.

[mike corley]

I understand the grades. Just trying to figure out what you were saying. It letters as a VHE purchased by Mrs. Vincent Astor. So....don't really know why she bought it. Back to the question. Do you think Parker made 3 identical VHE 28's in a row because of an order or just because?

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by mike corley

My gun was originally purchased in 1927 by one Mrs. Vincent Astor! Her husband being the son of John Jacob Astor IV who was lost on the Titanic. Her name was Helen Dinsmore Huntington. They were married for 26 years.
She had the gun for 6 months and took it back to Von Lengerke & Detmold.

I wonder if she might have been a daughter of known sporting artist Dwight W. Huntington (1860 - 1906). And and she may have bought the gun for someone else, like a son or daughter or nephew.... who later decided they really didn't want it or maybe wished for something better? .... or maybe it was purchased as a prop for a painting - we'll probably never know without exhaustive research.

[Jawjadawg]

Why she would buy a VHE instead of a fancier grade? The answer to that question might be as simple as her tastes. She might have grown up seeing even her wealthy father and grandfathers carry and perhaps even prefer relatively plain guns. Maybe she found the higher grade guns to be gaudy? My wife would pick a plain gun over one engraved with dogs. Engrave one with flowers and she would ooh and ahh over the thing - to the extent she would ooh or ahh over a gun in the first place. If Mrs. Astor were trying to share in the activities of her likely distant husband, with whom she was unable to have children, then perhaps she had the wisdom not to show up with a nicer gun than her husband.

How many millionaires do you know who hunt with plain jane guns today? I would wager that to be the vast majority. A friend of mine married up, which has allowed me to shoot doves with one of the wealthiest tree farmers in the State of Georgia several times. The man usually pulls out a single shot 20ga that continually rolls around in the trunk of his Buick sedan.

Knowing the history of a gun is interesting; however, provenance is a little like beauty - the importance is in the eye of the beholder. The provenance value is going to be significantly subjective, if any at all. How much would you pay for a pair of basketball shoes worn by Michael Jordan? How much would you pay for a pair worn by Michael Jordan's wife?

[mike corley]

Wow, I'm going to learn to not type on my phone one day.

[mike corley]

While I am a dawg fan I'll have to disagree with you on that one. There THOUSANDS of "famous" people in the world nowadays that make millions of dollars and I'm sure I wouldn't want a pair of shoes that MJ's wife wore. However, if I were a painting collector and I found a painting that had been in the Gates household or Buffet household ,whether he or his wife purchased it , it would be very ,very cool. I don't come from a well off family but I have to believe that just being an Astor back in the 20's was much bigger than being a celebrity today. Even if Vincent didn't buy the gun himself, it was still in his household for a period of time and I wouldn't be surprised if he shot it himself. Its speculation but for all we know he could have told her to pick it up. I honestly believe there was way more of a chance of a presidential figure handling that gun once Frelinghuysen bought it than when Ms. Astor had it. The Senator was kicking around a lot with past ,present and future presidents back in that time frame. Either way, find me another 28g a 00 frame that was owned by the Astor family

[Jawjadawg]

I had never heard of the Frelinghuysen family, although I consider myself a student of politics. They are a bit of a political dynasty. 4 US senators in one family is really something, and a member of the family is still active in Congress today. Republicans, too. That obviously would hold interest for a few people.

I just read Vincent Astor was worth $1.5 billion dollars at his death back in 1959. The original, John Jacob Astor represented nearly 1% of the US economy in his day. By comparison, Bill Gates represents about .55%. Those Astors were some pretty shrewd slumlords.

[John Davis]

The eternal question: How much value does provenance add to a gun? Answer: Depends. Some names certainly add value, i.e. Oakley, Roosevelt, Gable, Bogart. However, just because it was owned or handled by a once rich or famous person doesn't automatically mean extra change. I spent much time and money researching one such fellow. Published a book and sold about 1000 copies. Perhaps I added a dollar or two to the value of the Kimble guns (in the right market) but in most eyes they are still just run of the mill Parkers at best. And there are at least two of us on this board that have in our collections a number of guns with well owned provenance (Brother Murphy). It's worth keeping in mind that value isn't only measured in dollars and cents. Sometimes it's best measured in rich history and the dividends earned through discovering it.