A few hammer gun questions

[Phil C]

Took a look at a couple of Parkers today. S/N 34172 a 12 gauge 2 barrel set with individual forend for each barrel, 30" and a 25 1/2 sets and serial numbers all match.. I am guessing that the short set has been cut but it appears to have a keel. Looked up the S/N in my Parker Gun ID and S/N book and it is not listed. Look on the web site and it states there are surviving records. If there are surviving records why was this not listed in the book? I am sure I have heard the answer in the past but just do not remember. Also what is the chance barrels would be listed in the records? Gun was made in 1883 on a one frame. How common would a 2 barrel set be during this time frame.
The other gun is S/N B 1543. No records on this gun, but I do not recall why some guns were marked with the B. Damascus barrels, straight grip lifter. Bores a little rough and loose on face. Not bad for a 140 year old gun I guess.

[Pa SxS]

Phil, the S/N book is based on the stock book entries so there must be a missing stock book for 34172 but a surviving order book. That's why the web site says there are surviving records. If the gun was originally ordered as a two barrel set, the order book should reflect that. If it was sent back at a later date for the second set it may or may not be recorded. Remember, there are gaps in our records. I'm not sure what the "B" means.

[Bill Zachow]

If the serial number book is based on the stock book entries, then why are some guns that are in missing stock books but in the order books listed?

[Pa SxS]

Bill Zachow,

I'm pasting an old e-mail I sent to Bill Mullins. You can see his reply. I guess I should have mentioned that in my first reply to this thread.

On Oct 9, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Charles Bishop <pgcaresearch@verizon.net> wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> I got a request for a research letter for S/N 158846. It's listed in the Serialization Book but the Stock Book for that gun is missing. Books 54,55,and 56 are missing. Book 53 ends with 150697 and book 57 starts with 159362. How is it that the Serialization Book lists many guns that we don't have the stock books for????
>
> Hope you can shed some light on this.
>
> Thanks, Chuck

On 10/9/2013 12:31 PM, billmullins42@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello Chuck!
> When we did TPS Remington let us copy the stock books but not the order books. However, they did let Roy Gunther take home one order book at a time so he/we could go through them & extract guns D grade & higher so we could include those serial numbers in our book. Of course, that same data base formed the Serialization Book.
> Therefore, most if not all came from the Order Books. Late Remington/Parker numbers from IBM cards.
> Hope that helps in answering the missing stock book numbers.
> Bill

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Zachow, to add to the Bill Mullins information provided by our researcher, let me add this. When Commander Gunther searched the "order books" for high grade and small and large gauge gun information to add to the TPS data, he did not ignore some interesting entries that were not "high grade or small or large gauge guns". Two barrel sets and other strange guns were among guns he felt should be included. Although Commander Gunther had access to the order books, he had no idea that the PGCA would later be given permission to copy those order books. He took advantage of the access he had, pre 1998, to copy exceptional guns he found in these books. Bill Mullins is welcome to critique the information I just provided.

[Bill Zachow]

Thanks to both of you, Bill and Chuck. Your answers were what I thought, but was not sure.

[Dean Romig]

I wonder if the B preceding the serial number might have anything to do with the 10 and 12 ga. suffix letters for the particular shell they were made for.