Figure choke from pellet count ?

[William Davis]

May be a simple answer to this one. Trying to figure out if the very worn VH I just bought has had the chokes altered. Not concerned with the pattern just has it been altered.

Right barrel constriction is about .002 left about .005, 26 inch 12 gage. Wall thickness mid point is just under .040, lot more than I would have expected. It has records and have ordered a letter. Letter from another VH I own says. "RH 230 LH 280 pellets of # 7 in a 30 inch circle @ 40 yards"

New charts don't show # 7 and I don't know for sure what the charge was. May be able to assume 1 1/8 and use 7 1/2 counts or perhaps not.

Assuming the letter I just ordered has the same sort of description what is the best way to correlate number of pellets to how the chokes measure 100 years later ?

Bill

[OH Osthaus]

choke would be figured from the percentage-

but shot sizes pattern differently - so it would make sense for someone to require the pattern figured with their favorite size

this Chart has American size 7 in it
http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

percentages given by O'Connor
Full Choke: 70% or higher
Improved Modified: 65%
Modified: 55-60%
Skeet No. 2: 55-60%
Quarter Choke: 50%
Improved Cylinder: 45%
Skeet No. 1: 35-40%
Cylinder: 35-40%

[William Davis]

Thanks

Great chart have printed it out

Bill

[Bill Murphy]

Parker pattern counts are made with different sizes of shot, different brands of shot, different sizes of target, different shapes of target, targets shot at different ranges, different charge weights of shot, you name it. To determine what your original test target was, you have to read the stock book entry. The alternative is seeing the order book entry, which may say tight, open, close, full, 250 shot in target with the target either specified or not. It could say even, modified, 300 shot, nearly full, bore for #4 shot, bore for buckshot without mentioning the size, you name it.

[Pa SxS]

To make matters more difficult, back in the day, the same size shot from one manufacturer would be different than another manufacturer. The pellet count for the same weight would vary. You would have to know who the shot manufacturer was, the pellet count for each barrel, and the shot weight, the size of the pattern and the distance plus the gauge to figure out the percentage. Some of the Parker catalogs had a chart of shot sizes and manufacturers. I'll try and scan it and post in but may not be for a couple of days.

[Pa SxS]

When the stock books were copied, evidently the copier wasn't quite long enough to copy the entire page. If I'm lucky, I can see the pellet count at the end of the page. If I'm a little more lucky, I can see the pellet count plus the size of the shot, if I'm even more lucky, I can see what the distance and pattern was.

What I learned from looking at an original stock book at the Remington Museum was that there was another column to the right of the patterning information. That column gave the type of powder used, shot weight, and shell. Rarely you will see that info in the Order Book. The customer specified the type of shell to use.

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck will give you what is available to him. As he says, not all information is available in most instances because the copies of the stock books are not as long as the original stock book pages. Originality in individual guns is usually determined by comparing order book information with the bore and choke measurements gleaned from the micrometer.

[Big D]

Are the barrels uncut? There should be approximately 4" of choke constriction in each barrel. Most guns had more choke than yours.

[Pa SxS]

Here is the shot comparison table showing how many pellets were in each manufacturers shot per 1 ounce. Most 12ga's were tested using 1 1/8 oz of shot unless otherwise specified. I've seen Tatum shot used quite a bit in the records. Do the math to figure out how many pellets would be in 1 1/8 oz of shot and figure out the percentages based upon what the factory records show for the number of pellets in the pattern. The gun William is referring to used a 30" circle at 40 yards. Earlier guns were patterned using a 24" circle at 45 yards. The real early guns (underlifters) used a pattern of 18 x 24 at 45 yards. It's important to know the pattern size and distance.

[Ed Blake]

I have a DH that specified 1 1/4 oz Tatum #7 shot over 48 grains of Schultze (sp?)powder. No shot count noted, just "shoot close." The barrels both have 35 points of choke.