Denser patterns

[Cold Spring]

Here's my opinion; the short 10's such as an Ithaca Super 10 made for high velocity loads with 1-5/8 ounce of lead shot will absolutely flatten a large turkey or predator such as a fox at 60 yards = my personal max based on actual patterning. That's with heavy choking at 45 points or even a touch more and using hard lead 4's (max for turkeys here in PA) or with 2's for foxes and BB's for coyotes. Same for waterfowl using real NICE shot (not bismuth) or with Kent TM that's been mined from Kent factory shells. Sure everyone wants as close a humane shot as possible but if a bird is wounded that second shot is taken at whatever the range happens to be. Now I'm not talking here about light short 10 loads with 1-1/8 or even 1-1/4 ounce of lead, or worse yet, with bismuth for waterfowl. Funny, just yesterday there was a discussion over breakfast on the way to our sporting club, about the merits of the modern practice of shooting fine shot at turkeys and going for the head. The concensus by several long time hunters is, that works well when the bird is called in relatively close, but also that the old timers knew what they were doing by shooting 2's as generally recommended by the period ammo companies for the large birds. Again, 4's are the max allowed for turkeys nowadays here in PA. Our spring season opened on Saturday and two of the buds were showing off cell pics of good gobblers taken the day before with 3-inch 12's and regular 4-shot. Not some modern fad turkey load with a cool sounding name. At least some of the guys are keeping the faith .....

[J. A. EARLY]

Frank,

I don't disagree with a thing you say. I passed on a Super Ten Ithaca last year, and it was a big mistake. Then I saw those brand new old stock Remington high power shells in 1 5/8 at the Southern, and wished I had the gun. What a killer!

But when we are loading the short ten with just 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 for low pressure damascus/twist (which will equal slower speeds, unlike those Remingtons at 1300 fps), my opinion to Wayne is it would be unethical to try to stretch it to 40 and 50 yards. I have not seen a lifter 10 choked at .045 as I said, mostly what I have seen is in the .035 range which will require patterning to find out what it will really do. I say 40 max to be ethical. After that its 50/50 if you can go pick him up. You'll get some, you'll lose some.

I also agree on the 2s for turkeys (long before the days of shooting for the head only where body shots would put them down) and that dead horse is smelly from last year's discussion. The old timers then shot for the base of the neck, putting number 2 shot in the neck, head, and body, or at the whole turkey on the wing. That's why the shell manufacturers put that in the listing of what size to use for different animals.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Funny, just yesterday there was a discussion over breakfast on the way to our sporting club, about the merits of the modern practice of shooting fine shot at turkeys and going for the head. The concensus by several long time hunters is, that works well when the bird is called in relatively close, but also that the old timers knew what they were doing by shooting 2's as generally recommended by the period ammo companies for the large birds. Again, 4's are the max allowed for turkeys nowadays here in PA.

Frank, what do you and your friends consider to be "fine shot"?

4's are the "max allowed", meaning the largest shot size allowed? Wouldn't that have been a wise decision, considering 4's and smaller would allow for a denser pattern than 2's and larger?.... keeping in mind not every turkey hunter uses a gun choked 'extra full' or tighter.

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Frank, what do you and your friends consider to be "fine shot"?

4's are the "max allowed", meaning the largest shot size allowed? Wouldn't that have been a wise decision, considering 4's and smaller would allow for a denser pattern than 2's and larger?.... keeping in mind not every turkey hunter uses a gun choked 'extra full' or tighter.

Dean, some good questions ..... I consider fine shot for turkeys to be 6's and smaller diameter. Surely, fine shot will create a denser pattern and is very effective for turkeys at moderate range, but as the yardage stretches, the velocity and thus energy/penetration of fine shot drops off much more quickly than 4's or better yet 2's. There's just no substitute for body cavity penetration at longish ranges. The largest diameter allowed in PA is size 4 lead. And if it were legal today for turkeys I'd be shooting hard lead 2's in my 3-inch 12's and short 10's - both with heavy, high velocity loads. As I do for called predators in the winter. Again, all this is my opinion only but it's based on years of fox hunting with trailing hounds when I was a kid, and having hunted turkeys even when we had to drive to the deep mountains to find the few that were around then. My hunting mentor "Goldie" used 2's, period, he killed hundreds of foxes for bounty, and a fox is a whole lot smaller than a turkey. How I wish I might once again hear the baying of his hounds as they got closer, the adrenaline got to pumping, and I knew that '97 was loaded with Peters 2's. It's just too easy to misjudge range when in the woods, and see wounded heavier game run off or fly away.