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-   -   1904 CHE shooter I am considering (https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19514)

Bill Holcombe 08-03-2016 08:15 PM

1904 CHE shooter I am considering
 
5 Attachment(s)
I currently have in my possesion a 1904 CHE 12 gauge 2 frame shooter. It has titanic barrels that have been monoblocked and with screw in chokes that was originally 30 inches. The original barrels were blown out, but the monoblocking appears to be well done from my comparisons to others that have been done.

The price is a good one for a CHE. The engraving is more of the early version that is very similar to D's.

It has a pad on the end with the widow peak still visible and the forearm has been rechecked to repair/cover up damage or it may be a new well fitted piece.

I will take more pics, but it is a nice price on a shooter C.

legh higgins 08-03-2016 08:38 PM

a cheap gun in any grade is quickly overshadowed by quality.

edgarspencer 08-03-2016 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe (Post 199516)
It has titanic barrels that have been monoblocked

If it has been sleeved, how do you know it has Titanic barrels? Because the top rib inscription says so?

greg conomos 08-03-2016 09:50 PM

Has the forend been replaced?

Phillip Carr 08-03-2016 09:55 PM

It does look like a D grade, what is the difference in the engraving between this C grade and a D ?

Bill Holcombe 08-03-2016 09:56 PM

I do not know if they are actually titanic or not. The rib that is on them says titanic and the bluing looks correct.

The forend has either been replaced or heavily recheckered, it definitely isn't checked correctly.

I fully realize that condition is important, but I struggle to buy old DHs, a quality CHE is not something I could afford without selling a lot of funs.

Bill Holcombe 08-03-2016 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Carr (Post 199524)
It does look like a D grade, what is the difference in the engraving between this C grade and a D ?

It has finer detail than a D grade. It also has wrap around checking on the wrist as well as 5 birds on the floor plate as opposed to 4. The scroll work is better as well.

The late 1800 and early 1900 Cs don't have a lot of difference from Ds from what I have seen unless they were rondells.

David Noble 08-03-2016 10:01 PM

Are the barrels still 30 inches? I'd like to see pics of the muzzle and dolls head area.

Bill Holcombe 08-03-2016 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Noble (Post 199527)
Are the barrels still 30 inches? I'd like to see pics of the muzzle and dolls head area.

Barrels are now 26".

Will take some pics tomorrow.

Ken Hill 08-03-2016 10:40 PM

Bill,

I look and price British guns. The sleeving process has come a long way. The joint is practically invisible using TIG welding techniques. Usually they will use the rib from the old barrels. Even guns with an invisible joint are heavily discounted and hard to resell.

Ken

Bill Holcombe 08-03-2016 10:50 PM

It is heavily discounted and I would be buying it as a shooter, certainly not an investment.

Erick Dorr 08-03-2016 10:57 PM

Can you include some photos of the complete gun, muzzles and the barrel flats?
Glad you are excited about this CHE.
Is the barrel flat have the Titanic steel mark as well as the top rib?
Enjoy,
Erick

legh higgins 08-04-2016 08:32 AM

I bought a 0 frame 20 at a yard sale for 800.00 del grego refinish. turns out it was a 16 monoblocked new 20 barrels etc etc. now its under the bed upstairs...

legh higgins 08-04-2016 08:33 AM

:nono:I bought a 0 frame 20 at a yard sale for 800.00 del grego refinish. turns out it was a 16 monoblocked new 20 barrels etc etc. now its under the bed upstairs...

Brian Dudley 08-04-2016 09:53 AM

That is not really a very good sleeving job from a cosmetic standpoint. Since the sleeve joint can be seen from my house.

Phillip Carr 08-04-2016 10:01 AM

Im sure you were disappointed to realize after purchasing.An easy way to get it out from under the bed and money back in your hand it post it for sale here. For $800 I for one would buy it as well as many others Im quite sure. Some guns are destined to be hunted with.

Bill Holcombe 08-04-2016 10:11 AM

14 Attachment(s)
Here are the pics I took this morning. Unfortunately they are with cell phone as the canon is with my wife and kid.

Anyway here they are:


The longer I seem to consider this one the less inclined I seem to buy it. I haven't decided yet as I plan to take it out and shoot it, but while it may be the rare chance for me to own a CHE, I am just not feeling this gun at the moment.

That may change with a couple of RST rounds through it. We shall see.

greg conomos 08-04-2016 10:29 AM

It really boils down to price. If it's a truly good deal...I'd buy it and let it lounge in my safe if nothing else. I'd also probably lose that pad if I were going to be seen in public with it.

Brian Dudley 08-04-2016 10:49 AM

I love seeing checkering jobs done by thise who have no idea what they are doing. By love, i mean it is sad.

Eric Eis 08-04-2016 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe (Post 199533)
It is heavily discounted and I would be buying it as a shooter, certainly not an investment.

If you say it's engraved as a D, how many birds are on the floorplate and what is the serial number?

greg conomos 08-04-2016 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Dudley (Post 199547)
I love seeing checkering jobs done by thise who have no idea what they are doing. By love, i mean it is sad.

That's why I asked if the forend was a replacement. Plus the color is different.

Bill Holcombe 08-04-2016 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Eis (Post 199550)
If you say it's engraved as a D, how many birds are on the floorplate and what is the serial number?

5 birds on the floor plate. Serial number was already checked and its a C as well according to the book. The engraving just doesn't show a lot of variation from Ds in early C guns.

Brian Dudley 08-04-2016 12:36 PM

Yes, forend wood is non-original replacement.

The engraving on this gun is pretty typical of most C grade guns. Generally speaking.

Every C has a little bit of variation from gun to gun, but this one has the normal amount of scroll work and border treatment that is normally seen on the grade.

The two major features that start showing up in C grade guns is the use of heavy border designs and the use of organicly shaped wrap-around checkering on the wrist.

Bill Holcombe 08-04-2016 12:43 PM

I have decided to pass on this gun. Mostly because when I took it out with me on a site visit to the pecan orchards on the north end of the county, there just wasn't any connection made between me and it. It would make a good shooter, but my budget constraints make me a little more picky on guns I get. It is on its way back home as we speak.

legh higgins 08-04-2016 03:33 PM

The VH 16 ga led a very rough life, monoblocked 20 ga 0 frame chokes were bored out by Marty the blind gunsmith Crooked bore job, off face bad when the forends off! vertical split in restock at metal interface causing very proud wood...your right I should sell it.

keavin nelson 08-04-2016 08:41 PM

What shows on the watertable, above/below the serial number - that will tell you grade.

Bill Holcombe 08-04-2016 08:50 PM

The grade has never been in doubt. It's serials as a C, it has 5 birds on floor plate like a c, it had titanic barrels, it has wrap around checkering on the stock, it has a 4 and a C on the water table. That has never been in doubt.

John Taddeo 08-04-2016 11:05 PM

I gotta ask..... what is that on the front face of the lug in the close picture of the barrel flat ???

Bill Holcombe 08-04-2016 11:08 PM

Really thick grease of some kind.

David Noble 08-05-2016 12:31 AM

In the picture of the barrel flats there is a "K" stamped close to where the barrel steel type is usually located. Does anyone know what that stands for? Krieghof?

William Davis 08-05-2016 07:22 AM

You made a good decision .

William

Mills Morrison 08-05-2016 10:07 AM

I think you made a good decision too.

My advice is to take the money you were going to spend on that gun and just let it build up and you will be able to buy a real C grade.

Erick Dorr 08-05-2016 02:39 PM

David the "K" supposedly stands for King and is typical of guns from the early in the 1900 period. I don't know the time span it was used but it is not uncommon.
Erick

Dean Romig 08-05-2016 03:24 PM

That's right - the "K" is for Charles Alonzo King, the Parker Gun Works superintendent until 1910 when his son Walter King took over that position. We also see the "WK" stamp on the barrel flats, and that is the stamp of Walter King.






.

Bill Holcombe 08-05-2016 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison (Post 199592)
I think you made a good decision too.

My advice is to take the money you were going to spend on that gun and just let it build up and you will be able to buy a real C grade.

I have decided that most C's that are out there don't have anything that truly appeals to me over a D short of being a rondell or bernard or something I could never afford due to uniqueness.

However, I currently have a DH heading my way that I am excited about so we shall see.

greg conomos 08-05-2016 04:30 PM

The C grade is considered a very special grade - the only made about 5,000 - and of those there are only about 4,900 available for purchase at any given time.

Bruce Day 08-05-2016 06:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Nice C grades sometimes become available but most are tightly held by Parker enthusiasts. Here is the floor plate engraving if a special one, a 1903 CHE 20 ga with 26" star Damascus barrels , rondel side panels and well figured French walnut stock with skeleton butt.

Bruce Day 08-05-2016 07:43 PM

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Some seek the C small bores , this one a 16 that serves as an example of original colors

Bruce Day 08-05-2016 07:45 PM

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Others seek the few remaining hammer C's, this one from the Parker New York Salesroom.

Jim DiSpagno 08-05-2016 07:48 PM

Thanks Bruce. Always treat to see your pic posts.


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