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View Full Version : Where is number 170703? An interesting history


Richard Strotjost
04-02-2012, 11:24 PM
This is my first post, as I joined the association just a few months ago. I bought my first Parker, a very nice Plain Twist underlifter 12 ga, made in 1877, about a year ago. Since then, I have added six more Parkers to my collection. I guess I caught a bit of Parker fever. So, I am always on the lookout for Parkers or related items.

This last weekend I went to a local gun auction warehouse sale and picked up an interesting item. It is a beaver tail forearm (not a Parker original from what I can tell) for a D Grade ejector gun, serial number 170703. It has a gold oval inset into the wood, just above the release lever with the name “Will J. Reid, Long Beach, CA” engraved on it. According to the Parker Serial Number Book, no.170703 was a DHE 12 ga. , with a straight grip, and 34” bbls. Made about 1915. Do any of the members own this gun, or know its whereabouts?

In my business of selling military antiques, I usually do a lot of internet research on different named artifacts such as medals, swords, Civil War groupings, etc. So, I thought this would be an interesting research project. I found out that Will J. Reid was President of the Hancock Oil Company, and Vice-President of the California Funding Corporation and General Insurance in the Long Beach area. He was a founding member of the Cerritos Gun Club, and the Chairman of the Board, and President of Ducks Unlimited in 1942/43. Born in 1889 in North Dakota, he died in 1956. I found a great article on the history of the local gun clubs of Southern California (yes, contrary to popular belief, we do have a hunting history here!). You can see the information at:

http://longbeachstudies.lbcc.edu/pdf/Geraldine%20Knatz,%20The%20Lost%20Gun%20Clubs%20of %20the%20Greater%20Long%20Beach%20Area.pdf

In viewing that article, I was astonished that on the first page, there is a photo of some of the local club members, and Will Reid is pictured with his Parker! You can plainly see the gold name plate on the forearm (he is second from the left) and the added leather piece at the bottom. The gun shows a lot of wear around the grip area, and most of the finish is gone from the barrels. You can also see what looks like a thick recoil pad on the end of the stock. They all look very dapper in their matching white pin striped pants, shooting sweaters, and brimmed hats. Also, later in the article there is a great photo of when Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig came to shoot ducks with the one of the clubs. Reid is pictured again, next to Babe Ruth, with his Parker facing out, showing the gold name plate again. I wish this piece could talk! See the photos posted below.
Maybe Mark Conrad can give us some info on number 170703? If it was ordered by Will Reid, or ? Obviously from the specs, it was a great duck gun or trap gun.

Richard Strotjost
04-02-2012, 11:55 PM
When the gun club property was sold, the buildings were moved to a park in Long Beach, now known as the Will J. Reid Scout Park, for the Boy Scouts to use as a camping ground. There was also a high school in Long Beach named after him. And, a charitible foundation in his name, organized for scholarships. He also wrote a history of the gun club and several articles in Ducks Unlimited literature. This photo was in the article also.

Brian Dudley
04-03-2012, 08:48 AM
Richard,

That is an awsome find and wonderful research. Gott love the guns int he cover picture of that article. 4 parkers and 4 LC smiths. They didn't mess around.

And the photo with Babe Ruth in it is priceless. I sure hope the gun is out there somewhere still. It would be nice to put it back together.

George M. Purtill
04-03-2012, 09:30 AM
I have said many times and thought aboiut it many more, we need a service/website to reunite parkers with their barrels, hang tags,letters from PB, etc. What a beautiful find and research job.

i have dozens of hang tags and letters with serial numbers that need tobe shared or even owned by the actual gun owners.
i bet you all do as well.

Mark Ouellette
04-03-2012, 12:00 PM
Richard,

That was one heck of a great first post!

Respectfully,
Mark

Bill Murphy
04-03-2012, 03:58 PM
Wonderful provenance. Provenance of my Parker guns is my favorite part of collecting. Initials or names on a gold shield are the first part of much provenance.

Dean Romig
04-03-2012, 07:17 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to say "not a Parker original, from what I can tell". It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out this was a special order forend. Send for a PGCA Research Letter on that serial number... you may be surprised.

John Truitt
04-03-2012, 07:47 PM
Sir,
I agree with what Mr Romig said. Do not be too quick to dismiss this as Parker or not. I have one even stranger than that one. Look in the picture with the Babe. The gun next to the man holding yours has the same type of forearm. Look closely. Trap shooters wanted anything that would give them the edge.
Very cool piece and history. Thank you for sharing.

Richard Flanders
04-03-2012, 08:44 PM
Can anyone tell how many Parkers are in those pics? In the one with Babe, the guys on the left and right ends have Parkers. Not sure on the rest, but #'s 2 and 3 from the left may be also.

Dave Suponski
04-03-2012, 09:04 PM
I believe the gent third from the left is non other than Lou Gehrig.

Daryl Corona
04-03-2012, 09:17 PM
George,
Why don't you start the ball rolling and list what you have as far as tags and letters. It would be interesting seeing what you have.

Dean Romig
04-03-2012, 09:19 PM
I would certainly buy the work tags for any on my Parkers.

Daryl Corona
04-03-2012, 09:32 PM
Dean,
You could also buy any tags for my guns and donate them to my firearms relief foundation for wayward straight grip 20 gauges. Just a thought.

Dave Suponski
04-03-2012, 09:46 PM
The reason for my previous post is supported by this picture taken in I believe 1927 the "Murderers Row" years of the Yankees. This picture was taken at the same time the picture posted previously. I bought both of these copies from Dennis Wolfe a few Vintagers ago.

Daryl Corona
04-03-2012, 09:52 PM
Dave,
Don't laugh but I recognize the "Babe" on the right. Who are the other two gents?

Dean Romig
04-03-2012, 09:55 PM
I would venture to say that your picture Dave, and the group photo on the previous page with the "Babe" were both taken on the same day.... same car as the one on the left in the first picture... same clothes... look for other similarities.

Dave Suponski
04-03-2012, 10:02 PM
Daryl, The gent on the left is Lou Gehrig.I don't know the fellow in the middle and we know the "Babe" on the right.

Dean, Please read ALL of my previous post......:rolleyes:

Dean Romig
04-03-2012, 10:11 PM
Dean, Please read ALL of my previous post......:rolleyes:

Sorry... I've had a bad day.

Dave Suponski
04-03-2012, 10:18 PM
Remember what we discussed?......Amber liquid....night..night...:rotf:

Mark Conrad
04-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Richard thanks for sharing this information.

170703 is a DHE with 34 inch barrels, straight grip, no safety, large grip, 1 3/8 x 2 x 14 3/4. The order states engrave one large duck on floor plate. The guard bow was engraved "Made to order for W. H. Wilshire Los Angeles, CA". This order is almost a half page. duBray was the salesman and the gun was discounted to $62.50. WFP agreed to the discount.

duBray sold lots of these long barrel guns to the west coast market.

Mark

Richard Strotjost
04-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Thank you all for your replies. Mark, my letter order form is on the way!:) Thank you for the post with the order book information.
I found a Los Angeles Herald newspaper article from 1908 mentioning W.H. Wilshire leaving for a hunting trip to Calabasas. At the time, Calabasas must have been mostly all farm land or natural chaparral. I also found a page out of the magazine "Arms And The Man", dated June 12, 1913, that shows the results of a tournament and the winners. He placed 2nd in the 20 gauge overhead event, and placed in several of the other events. I underlined his name in the photo of the page below. I don't think he was related to the famous Wilshire, for whom Wilshire Blvd. is named after, but haven't confirmed that yet. Would be interesting to find out how Reid ended up with the gun. Wilshire would have probably been a bit older than him. But the two probably knew each other.

George M. Purtill
04-04-2012, 04:15 PM
I will do that but I think I will start a new thread that others can post to and search for serial numbers.
The format will be: [serial number] spaces [description of item:hang tag, letter, barrels, etc]

this will create searchable data in our forum. all one will have to do will be to click on the search box on the tool bar and type in their serial number of a gun they are researching. the more people who post items that they have, the better the database.

Richard B. Hoover
04-04-2012, 05:02 PM
Majestic shotguns, ducks and Baseball greats. What a wonderful combination!!

Thanks for all that fabulous information.

Bill Murphy
04-04-2012, 05:46 PM
George, I think that will work. However, I think you should request that our webmaster create a new subforum and also create a "sticky" at the top of the subforum to explain the search function that will help to locate particular serial numbers. Some discussion may be neccesary to name the new subforum.

greg conomos
04-04-2012, 10:53 PM
Can you imagine the ruckus if two of today's baseball players were photographed holding the 'G' word and with birds they had shot?