damascas bbl.

[Bill Ericksen]

Hi,

Is there a way to tell if a dam. bbl. (circa 1922) was proofed for nitro?

Thanks

Bill E.

[Rick Losey]

Since we have never had a national proof house, Parker, as did all the quality makers, proofed their own barrels to their own standard. there was no reproofing done.

just a guess, but I would think by 1922 smokeless was the norm.

the real question would be - has it been alterred? Is it still in proof?

[charlie cleveland]

would some one give us a definition on how a gun could get out of proof...i know myself but i aint good at putting it in the rite words

[Rick Losey]

would some one give us a definition on how a gun could get out of proof...i know myself but i aint good at putting it in the rite words

out of proof means that the barrel dimensions have been altered,

in many if not most cases - honing to bore to clean it up, altering chambers or forcing cones I think would also count. also, but more rarely, by restriking.

if metal has been removed to any significant amount, the tubes would be out of proof

and in countries with proof houses - by law must be retested.

[Bruce Day]

Hi,

Is there a way to tell if a dam. bbl. (circa 1922) was proofed for nitro?

Thanks

Bill E.

TPS provides information about how barrels were proofed. As in many Parker matters, much can be learned from TPS. By around 1900, the changeover to nitro pattern loads was complete. Original hang tags and often a research letter provides patterning information with powder used, but not proof, as bulk nitro ( Woods) is assumed. A 1922 barrel likely has never seen a black powder load. Black powder was phased out beginning in about 1895 , resulting in many cartridge changes such as the .30 cal US of 1906, .45 ACP, etc.

Later damascus barrels, circa 1927 will be stamped "Overload Proved" as the SAAMI standards became widely adopted. Parker didn't changed a thing, as they already met them.

Not that it really matter much, because the bulk nitro and later progressive burning smokeless powders provided a broader pressure profile than black. That's why many of the guns from the black era had massive chamber walls, to withstand the sharper pressure profile of black.

[Ray Masciarella]

The fact that BP was being phased out by 1895, doesn't necessarily means BP wasn't widely available for sale. In fact it was for all those guns made in the BP era. Folks didn't just throw them away when smokeless became the state of the art.
A 1922 barrel wasn't likely to see much BP but it was available, wasn't it? I think what a 1922 damascus barrel really means there it could be used safely with the smokeless of the day. Am I thinking correctly here?

Thx, Ray

[Bruce Day]

Some people then as now continue to use black powder in shotguns, 45-70 rifles, Colt SAA and all sorts of guns. They like the smoke and nostalgia I suppose.

I was referring to Parker patterning loads for the changeover to nitro around 1900. If you look at enough hang tags, you'll see exclusive use of nitro starting at least as late as 1900.

A 1922 damascus barrel really means that it and fluid steel barrels passed the same proof tests that Parker used at the time, averaging 15,500 psi for a 12 ga. That of course doesn't mean the barrels will rupture immediately above that. Again, see the TPS tables, which I have posted here many times. Parker provided suggested load tables expressed in ounces of shot and drams of powder, drams for black and drams equivalent for bulk smokeless. A person could shoot black out of a Vulcan and smokeless from damascus, whatever his fancy.

[charlie cleveland]

thanks O H for the defination ofnot in proof.... charlie

[George Lander]

My Dad once told me the story of how, during WWII, smokeless powders were unavailable. One day a farmer was burning off a huge field and invited him and some friends to bring their guns. They went to a local store and the only shells that were available had been handloaded with black powder. On returning to the field they would wait for a rabbit to run out and shoot. Then they would have to run several yards to the side to see if they hit anything.

Beast Regards, George

[Ed Blake]

I would add that a 1922 Parker Bros. damascus barrel was the same as an 1892 Parker Bros. damascus barrel. Stay within the recommended loads published by Parker and you will shoot safely whether with black or smokeless. I've never run the first black powder load through any of my damascus barreled Parkers. Those BP loads kick too much, heat the barrels up too much, and are a mess to clean up after.

[Justin Julian]

A 1922 damascus barrel really means that it and fluid steel barrels passed the same proof tests that Parker used at the time, averaging 15,500 psi for a 12 ga.

That's an amazing amount of pressure.....I asked RST what the PSI rating is on their 12 gauge Falcon ultra-lite loads and standard lite loads and they advised 4,500 and 6,800 PSI respectively. That would seem to imply that almost any damascus Parker in decent shape will be able to shoot those loads with a tremendous safety margin to spare. I have a couple cases of those shells, but haven't fired them through any of my damascus guns yet...but I will.

[George M. Purtill]

where can one buy cases of RST shells in Connecticut?
is there any possibility of reloading those shells- being the yankee i am- and where would one get the wads for a 2 1/2 inch shell?

[Justin Julian]

You can order directly from RST over the internet. I have no idea about the reloading question.

[Bruce Day]

That's an amazing amount of pressure.....I asked RST what the PSI rating is on their 12 gauge Falcon ultra-lite loads and standard lite loads and they advised 4,500 and 6,800 PSI respectively. That would seem to imply that almost any damascus Parker in decent shape will be able to shoot those loads with a tremendous safety margin to spare. I have a couple cases of those shells, but haven't fired them through any of my damascus guns yet...but I will.

That would be correct but as you see on in the TPS tables service load pressures are lower than proof load. The Sherman Bell DGJ Damascus and Vulcan barrels ruptured at 29000psi


Correction. Check the TPS tables which I do not have in front of me. I believe the proof load for a 12 ga was 13000 in 1920 then rose to 15500 in the late 1920s. Just refer and follow the Parker tables in TPS.

[Dave Suponski]

RST hulls can be reloaded with great success. You follow recipes for a Cheddite hull.

[Ed Blake]

where can one buy cases of RST shells in Connecticut?
is there any possibility of reloading those shells- being the yankee i am- and where would one get the wads for a 2 1/2 inch shell?

George - if you attend the big Vintager shoots in New England, RST usually has a tent selling their ammo. Buy from them there. Nice guys who are big supporters of the PGCA and other SxS associations.

[George Lander]

George: They will also be present at the Southern SxS at the end of this month.

Best Regards, George

[Dean Romig]

Actually, the Damascus barrels of a GH that Sherman Bell tested finally came apart at 31,XXX PSI

[Rich Anderson]

George I reload all 2 1/2 inch shells in 12, 16 & 20 and use RST hulls for the most part that I have scrounged up at SXS shoots such as The Southern. The wads I use are Galandi (?sp) and I order them from Ballistic Products in MN. The RST hulls reload wonderfully by the way.