Ammo Recommendation for '29 VH 12 Gauge

[T O'Brien]

I'm gonna do it. After years of wondering what it can do, I'm taking out grandad's 1929 Parker 12 Gauge VH Grade (Vulcan steel barrel) to take down some ducks. Do any of you have any recommendations/warnings regarding ammo? Any help would be appreciated.

[Bob Jurewicz]

T,
Notox Bismuth 2 1/2" shells are available and I believe RST has soft notox as well. Waterfowl hunting requires the non toxic shot and should not be difficult to find, but, expensive.
Bob Jurewicz

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Anybody that would shoot steel or Hevi-Shot (other than Classic Doubles) through a damascus gun needs to have their head examined. Pay no attention to Bruce, he's not a duck hunter and knows pretty much nothing about what shells to use for them in old guns as is obvious by his above post.

The cream of the crop as far as non-toxic, double gun friendly, duck loads is either the NiceShot loads from RST or the lighter charge Kent Tungsten Matrix shells. I've shot a lot of the 1 1/4 ounce Kent stuff through 12 gauge Parkers and it's deadly though probably the lighter 1 1/8 ounce shells would be easier on the old guns.

I've used the RST 10 gauge NiceShot loads and they're absolutely terrific. I've not had a chance to try the 12 gauge ones but I'm sure they're equally good as that company doesn't put out a bad shell. The great thing about RST is that all their shells are made with old guns in mind so the pressures are low and the recoil light. I can't say that about the Kent ammo, but the shot won't damage old barrels for sure, even damascus if the loading is reasonable.

Your other choices are the Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles (not the regular Hevi-Shot) and the new bismuth shells from Pinnacle. I've never used either but have heard they're both decent. I've used the old brand bismuth quite a bit and it was fine so I'd say the newer stuff is fine as well.

The one drawback to all this stuff is price, for a standard 12 gauge shell with a 1 1/8 ounce charge you're looking at $2.75 to $3.50 per cartridge depending on which you go with. It's the price you pay for wanting to use an old double for waterfowling. But, I can assure you, the satisfaction you get with taking birds using your Grandfathers gun will far surpass any you'll get from shooting them with a Benelli or other modern fowling piece.

Here's a link to RST:

http://www.rstshells.com/

If you're buying anything short of a case you'll have to contact one of their dealers but that information is on the website as well.

The rest of the stuff can be ordered through the various online sources and some can probably be bought off the shelf at places like Cabela's and Bass Pro.

Good luck and good shooting, I've been killing about 90% of my ducks and geese with Parkers for the past 10 years and I wouldn't change a thing even if the ammo is high dollar.


Regards,
Destry

[Pete Lester]

Destry is spot on with his recommendations. I started shooting Bismuth loads through a Parker in 94/95 and all I could find at that time was 1 3/8 oz in 2 3/4" 12ga. They worked fine and never hurt my gun. However, I would have preferred a little bit lighter load. Around 2000 I started reloading loose Bismuth when it became available. Reloading put me in control relative to shot weight, velocity and pressure and it cut the cost of shooting Bismuth significantly over factory loaded shells but it still ain't cheap.

One question no one as asked, what shape is your gun in, what is the condition of the bores? What frame size and weight of gun are we talking about? These factors would determine how heavy and how "hot" a load I would put through it.

Destry didn't mention ITX shot from Precision Reloading. Most likely because I don't think it's available in factory loaded shells. It is supposed to be classic shotgun friendly but I have read it is still pretty hard. I have got a lot of old loose Bismuth on the shelf, when it runs out I will most likely buy more and perhaps some nice shot.

Waterfowling with a Parker is great fun and very satisfying. I think Destry can attest that shooting a Parker for duck and goose hunting will make you a member of a very small fraternity. Be careful and have fun, it's a blast!

[Don Kaas]

Pete and Destry are spot on. In factory loaded non-tox, my standard recommendation for old doubles is currently 1 1/8oz Hevi-shot Classic Doubles or RST Niceshot loads...my club has bought 15,000 rounds of custom Niceshot RST pigeon loads from Morris and Alex and (other than the cost) we are very, very pleased with them.

[Greg Baehman]

RE: Steel shot through damascus...I thought I had it figured out, but now am a little confused...

In this thread we have a serious waterfowler saying you should have your head examined if one should consider shooting steel shot through damascus guns--and others with long-in-the-tooth experience apparently agreeing with him. Then in this same thread we have another that prefers the uplands, but is an occasional waterfowl hunter that has shot steel shot through open-choked heavy-barreled damascus guns with no ill effects...this leads to my confusion...perhaps a Sherman Bell "Finding Out For Myself" article on the subject would be in order.:corn:

[Eric Eis]

Sorry but I will have to disagree with Bruce again on this same subject. Shooting steel through these guns is not a good idea, bad wad scored barrel, and if you are shooting premium ammo like Hevi shot then the cost is not much more for Kent TM or RST, besides how many shells are you going to shoot.... Bruce I've said it before and I'll say it again, why take the chance, besides the effects of steel shot in older barrels you have the effects of hot loads like the Remington through guns that have 70 to 100 year old wood and metal, why would you want to do that to your gun and to tell someone who is a newbie to these guns that it is "ok" to shoot Steel shot through them is just pure irresponsible... :duck: Eric

[Bruce Day]

I will leave the forum to others and have deleted all recent posts.

[Dave Suponski]

Bruce,You do not have to leave... Just explain to us your reasoning and mindset on this subject.And maybe a great discussion would ensue.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bruce has done this before, he'll return I'm sure. *rolls eyes*

You can't give out that kind of bad advice and not expect folks who know better to not speak up.

[Francis Morin]

Bruce- one of the great things about history, whether aviation, the law, or our beloved doubles afield, is the variety of opinions, and no one man can be an expert on all phases of shotgunnery. I won't speak for the small bore fans, the die-hards who pursue Sir Ruff through class three jungle canopy in early season, or the gents who love shore birds and snipe, or can afford driven birds "across the pond"-- Shotgunnery, like golf, has many facets and the "game always wins in the end"--

That being said, I have 50 years as a "die-hard" waterfowler, with some pheasant hunting experiences too involving steel and non-toxic shot. I applaud the members who thrill at a well centered scaup or bufflehead in a late November squall over a big water spread, and if they choose to use a DHE 12 rather than a Binelli or a Mossberg, A-OK with me. The premium shells are a "drop in the bucket" compared to the cost or replacing bulged or damaged barrels in your Parker, Ithaca, Fox or Smith.

I have used the Hevi-Shot for classic doubles 12- 1& 1/8 oz. no. 5 in both my Smith 2E with 32" Nitro barrels, and my Parker 12 GHE with 28" Vulcan barrels, and they kill mallards (if you point, swing and follow through) but I use either of those doubles on "special occasions"- When the weather is foul and nasty and a big Norther starts moving those big redleg mallards into our area, I use the "evil black shotgun" the 835 Mossberg pump with 28" ribbed ported barrel and the Carlson tubes I won at a DU Sponsor event some years ago, with Federal 3" steel shot.

I have heard very good things about ALL the non-toxic and custom shell makers others have detailed on this thread- In the final analysis, I would suggest having the Parker (or other older quality double) you are thinking of using for waterfowling checked over first by a competent double gunsmith, and if he happens to be a waterfowler, as is my gunsmith/friend Brad Bachelder, asks him for his shotshell recommendation for your particular gun.

I am pleased you are on my PGCA "friends list", I have both enjoyed and learned from all your posts herein, as I have from others as well, so I ask you to please reconsider leaving the forum--:bowdown:

[T O'Brien]

One question no one as asked, what shape is your gun in, what is the condition of the bores? What frame size and weight of gun are we talking about? These factors would determine how heavy and how "hot" a load I would put through it.

Condition of the bores is really very good. The frame size is 1 1/2. Weight is 38 . Any alterations in your earlier advice?

Thanks to all for the education, BTW.:)